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.22 wmr good?

Discussion in '.22-Rimfire Forum' started by john riley, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. john riley

    john riley New Member

    Joined:
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    was looking at getting a .22mag for small game hunting (w/option of close range varmnting) it will also come camping w/me and the 22wmr offers a little extra zip outta the gate for dealing w/the boogieman over a 22lr I've read that a 22wmr has alot of meat destruction I was thinking of using a softer lead bullet as opposed to a hp to avoid this (fmjs are not an option as they riccochet 2 much) will this cal suit my means w/rt ammotype?
  2. DWARREN123

    DWARREN123 New Member

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    Should be fine as long as the ranges and targets are not outside the range of the round. Put your money into a good rifle and scope, costs more to begin with but worth it over the long run.
  3. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    A hollow point mag will be more than enough for small game
  4. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    If you don't handload, it may fill the bill, between the .22lr, and a centerfire.
    If you handload, the Hornet, or the Bee, is twice the gun, for the same or less, per round fired.
    The .22 WMR is a 'spoiler' cartridge, IMHO,possessing little of the accuracy the .22LR provides, in 'target tune', and much less power than it's slightly larger, centerfire brethren offer.
    I feel pretty strongly that, if you have the opportunity to shoot a rifle, well built, in the caliber, that you will agree; strongly enough, that the Hornet will be my grandson's first 'deer rifle' (He's eight).
    With what I am spending to build the rifle, he could have any caliber on earth, yet these humble, but efficient rounds are the choice, because they do the job, with no noise, and little recoil.
    Rifle is scheduled for a Christmas Present, next year, but may have to be delivered early, on account of the deer season, here,.
  5. 358 winchester

    358 winchester *TFF Admin Staff*

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    John a box of 22 WMR will run you between 7 and 10 dollars a box of 22 LR will run between .99 to 3.00 ! There are lots of diferent 22 LR ammos that cover about anything you want to shoot. either one of these rimfire rounds is less then a 100 yard rifle. The 17 HMR is a better round but again it cost a lot to shoot.
    I have owned them all and shot them all and my favorite is the 22 LR. I have gotten rid of all the 22 WMR and 17 HMR's. I have gone back to the 22 LR and love them. I also have the 223 for a more powerful 22 cal. round.
    the 22 Hornet or one of the other 22 caliber center fire rounds will out shoot the 22 WMR for about the same cost.
    just my 2 cents
  6. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    .358, I am not trying to start 'flame war', or anything of the sort, and in most of your post you are not only accurate, and we are in total agreement!
    However, let me offer a bit of info about the lowly .22 LR, of which you may not be aware. The really good stuff brings well over $1000/ case, and will shoot, in a rifle built around it, substantially less than half inch (in the threes, sometimes twos) at 100, if the shooter does his part!
    Not your everyday 'truck gun', but a 'purpose built' rifle, shot off the bench.
    I have a couple (like in, 12 or 15) rifles that will lay a variety of ammo, that they like, into .500", or smaller groups, at 100, come hell or high water, so feel the ammo/ rifle connection, i.e., chamber dimension, is a substasntial issue, but the.22 LR can be counted on, to shoot an inch, at 100, with good ammo, if the rifle is sound.
    The .22 WRM, of course, is a different story. Nobody loads quality (Match Quality) ammo for it, it is a 'Bastard son' of better lineage, and close (100) the LR will whip it, for accuracy, further out, I can shoot a far more accurate Hornet, cheaper, so will never own one.
    My old Stevens 44 1/2, with a little rejuvenating ( a good to excellent Douglas, or Shilen barrel,(it's a switch barrel rifle) and ammo, will head shoot squirrels, beyond 100, no problem; not 'hot' ammo.to be sure, but the squirrel could not tell, and well over forty have hit the skillet, here, from that, or longer ranges.
    The words that come to mind, are " It's not the size of the dog, in the fight; but the size of the fight in the dog!"
    The .22LR ain't the biggest dog in the pack, but, for a reliable, extremely accurate rifle, it's worth a look!
  7. rangerruck

    rangerruck New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    449
    I have multiple 22's, both lr and 22mag, and I like all of them. that being said, if i want to dispatch small furries, and want to go for headshots, or just plain get rid of them. the 17hmr is the way to go. it is more accurate than the others, it costs the same as the 22 mag for ammo, with a 100 yd zero, it only rises .5 inches at 50 yds, and only drops 3 to 5 inches at 150, depending on bullet used, length of bbl, etc. and compared to the others , this is how it stacks up;
    .17 Mach 2 ballistics: 17 grain bullet, .125 Ballistic Coefficient, muzzle velocity of 2,050 fps, common atmospheric parameters for my locality in North Alabama USA. Zero distance of 100 yards.

    Trajectory Output
    Input Data
    Ballistic Coefficient: 0.125 G1 Bullet Weight: 17.00 gr
    Diameter: 0.172 in

    Muzzle Velocity: 2050.0 ft/s Chronograph Distance: 10.0 ft

    Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
    Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
    Azimuth: 0.00 MOA Elevation: 0.00 MOA
    LOS Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

    Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
    Target Speed: 10.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg

    Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 30.05 in Hg
    Relative Humidity: 50.0 % Altitude: 440 ft

    Vital Zone Radius: 2.0 in Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No
    Corrected Pressure: Yes Target Relative Drops: Yes
    Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No
    Calculated Parameters
    Elevation: 6.25 MOA Azimuth: 0.00 MOA

    Atmospheric Density: 0.07535 lbs/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.5 ft/s

    Maximum PBR: 150 yds Maximum PBR Zero: 130 yds
    Range at Max Height: 79 yds Energy at PBR: 62.3 ft•lbs

    Sectional Density: 0.082 lbs/in²

    Calculated Table
    Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
    (yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
    0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2070.8 1.855 161.8 0.000 0.0 ***
    25 -0.1 -0.5 0.2 1.0 1917.7 1.718 138.8 0.038 6.6 25.3
    50 0.6 1.2 1.0 2.0 1772.0 1.587 118.5 0.078 13.8 26.3
    75 0.7 0.9 2.4 3.1 1634.6 1.464 100.8 0.122 21.5 27.4
    100 -0.0 -0.0 4.5 4.3 1506.5 1.349 85.7 0.170 30.0 28.6
    125 -1.7 -1.3 7.2 5.5 1389.2 1.244 72.8 0.222 39.1 29.9
    150 -4.5 -2.9 10.7 6.8 1284.4 1.150 62.3 0.278 49.0 31.2

    29 Nov 2006 15:18:00, JBM [http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm]

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    .22 long rifle ballistics: 40 grain bullet, muzzle velocity of 1,250 fps, .125 BC, same atmospheric parameters. Zero distance of 65 yards, getting the flattest trajectory possible from this loading.

    Trajectory Output
    Input Data
    Ballistic Coefficient: 0.125 G1 Bullet Weight: 40.00 gr
    Diameter: 0.223 in

    Muzzle Velocity: 1250.0 ft/s Chronograph Distance: 10.0 ft

    Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
    Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
    Azimuth: 0.00 MOA Elevation: 0.00 MOA
    LOS Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

    Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
    Target Speed: 10.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg

    Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 30.05 in Hg
    Relative Humidity: 50.0 % Altitude: 440 ft

    Vital Zone Radius: 2.0 in Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No
    Corrected Pressure: Yes Target Relative Drops: Yes
    Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No
    Calculated Parameters
    Elevation: 9.87 MOA Azimuth: 0.00 MOA

    Atmospheric Density: 0.07535 lbs/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.5 ft/s

    Maximum PBR: 102 yds Maximum PBR Zero: 87 yds
    Range at Max Height: 51 yds Energy at PBR: 88.5 ft•lbs

    Sectional Density: 0.115 lbs/in²

    Calculated Table
    Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
    (yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
    0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 1262.5 1.131 141.5 0.000 0.0 ***
    25 0.4 1.4 0.4 1.5 1175.5 1.053 122.7 0.062 10.8 41.4
    50 0.7 1.3 1.5 2.9 1104.4 0.989 108.3 0.128 22.4 42.9
    75 -0.8 -1.0 3.4 4.3 1047.7 0.938 97.5 0.197 34.7 44.2
    100 -4.3 -4.1 5.8 5.5 1001.8 0.897 89.1 0.271 47.6 45.5
    125 -9.9 -7.6 8.8 6.7 963.2 0.863 82.4 0.347 61.1 46.6
    150 -17.9 -11.4 12.3 7.8 929.5 0.833 76.7 0.426 75.0 47.8

    29 Nov 2006 15:20:31, JBM [http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm]

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ballistics of the least wind affected .22 long rifle loading, the subsonic 40 grain target loading at a nominal 1,065 fps, Ballistic Coefficient .140, 50 yards zero range which is the usual best zero distance for this load.

    Trajectory Output
    Input Data
    Ballistic Coefficient: 0.140 G1 Bullet Weight: 40.00 gr
    Diameter: 0.223 in

    Muzzle Velocity: 1065.0 ft/s Chronograph Distance: 10.0 ft

    Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
    Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
    Azimuth: 0.00 MOA Elevation: 0.00 MOA
    LOS Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

    Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
    Target Speed: 10.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg

    Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 30.05 in Hg
    Relative Humidity: 50.0 % Altitude: 440 ft

    Vital Zone Radius: 2.0 in Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No
    Corrected Pressure: Yes Target Relative Drops: Yes
    Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No
    Calculated Parameters
    Elevation: 10.52 MOA Azimuth: 0.00 MOA

    Atmospheric Density: 0.07535 lbs/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.5 ft/s

    Maximum PBR: 92 yds Maximum PBR Zero: 78 yds
    Range at Max Height: 46 yds Energy at PBR: 77.6 ft•lbs

    Sectional Density: 0.115 lbs/in²

    Calculated Table
    Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
    (yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
    0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 1071.6 0.960 102.0 0.000 0.0 ***
    25 0.3 1.1 0.3 1.1 1026.2 0.919 93.5 0.072 12.6 48.1
    50 -0.0 -0.0 1.1 2.0 988.0 0.885 86.7 0.146 25.7 49.1
    75 -2.5 -3.2 2.3 3.0 955.0 0.855 81.0 0.223 39.3 50.0
    100 -7.4 -7.1 4.1 3.9 925.6 0.829 76.1 0.303 53.3 50.9
    125 -14.8 -11.3 6.2 4.8 899.0 0.805 71.8 0.385 67.8 51.8
    150 -24.9 -15.9 8.8 5.6 874.4 0.783 67.9 0.470 82.7 52.7

    29 Nov 2006 15:23:20, JBM [http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wind drift with ten miles per hour wind, distance of 100 yards:
    .17 Mach 2 = 4.5''
    .22 long rifle, 40 grain high velocity load = 5.8''
    .22 long rifle, 40 grain subsonic target load = 4.1''

    Winner, 40 grain subsonic by all of .4''. Loser, .22 long rifle high velocity by 1.3''. .17 Mach 2 wind drift is only trivially greater than the vaunted .22 long rifle subsonic match ammunition.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Energy remaining at 100 yards
    .17 Mach 2 = 86 foot pounds
    .22 LR hv = 89 foot pounds
    .22 LR subsonic = 76 foot pounds

    Insignificant differences. I call equal striking energy for all three. The .17 caliber Vmax ballistic tip will fragment and dump it's energy more efficiently than the others.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bullet drop at 100 yards from the optimum zero for each round:

    .17 Mach 2 = NONE and was only 0.6'' high at mid range point of 50 yards.

    .22 LR hv 40 grainer = minus 4.3'' from a mid range high point of 0.7" @ 50 yds.

    .22 LR subsonic 40 gr. = minus 7.4'' drop from a mid range high point of 0.5'' at about 40 yards. Might could tweak the zero a tad further out and knock a fraction of an inch off of the drop, but not a significant amount. My shooting with actual ammunition has verified that this ammo actually drops more like 8'' to 10'', NOT the 7.4'' as calculated by the JBM computer, so either the ballistic coeffient is NOT as good as .140 as given by the ammo makers, OR the muzzle velocity in real shooting is actually lower than the given 1,065 fps.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Maybe that will be proof enough for some folks and cut through the "ballistic urban myths" that keep cropping up to plague the .17 calibers. They do NOT drift more than .22 long rifle ammo, they drift LESS. They do NOT have less striking energy at range than a .22 long rifle, they have EQUAL to the commonly used loadings. The CCI Velocitor can muster up about 100 foot pounds at 100 yards, slightly superior yes, but significantly, I think 11 foot pounds is NOT a significantly greater amount myself.

    Bottom line. The .17 Mach 2 can match or best the .22 long rifle for wind drift and striking energy, and positively destroy it trajectorywise.
    don't give me credit for this , I copied it, from another guys' ballistics table that he had just finished on this subject. And remember, this is just concerning the 17m2, not the 17 hmr , loaded with a 20 grn gamepoint bullet!
  8. 358 winchester

    358 winchester *TFF Admin Staff*

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    7,335
    Location:
    Pensacola Fl. area
    Gee Stash I want to come shoot with you, Please :) You may be one of the few out there that understands how fine a 22 long rifle round truly is.
    and as for the $1000.00 a case ammo goes I like that stuff too!! just that being a retired old fart I only use it when I am shooting against Kimber Man or one the other guys for donuts:D :D :D :D :D But I can see from your post that I ain't shooting you for donuts:eek: :eek: :eek:
    Ron
  9. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Oct 18, 2003
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    Location:
    Central Texas
    .358, any time you're gonna be in South Texas, let me know; I have about thirty acres west of town, in the Hill country: we can shoot anything with a barrel there, and never see a soul, unless we want to!
    From Pensacola, turn onto IH10, West, and proceed west on US 90, when IH 10 and Hwy 90 split, on the south side of town, proceeding another 55 mile or so, into Hondo, Tx; Turn right on FM462, 14 miles, and I'm on your right- about two miles to the right! Aproximate mileage is about 1019, driving time, 14 hours. At least, on a bike.
    Time and mileage reflect averages for me to visit my daughter, in Montgomery, Al., which I do often enough to remember the mileage.
    She keeps telling me I'm too old to continue to ride like this, but in 2008, I wil hope again to be drawn for the Iron Butt Rally, which will REALLY p*** her off!
    All the best.
    And please don't shoot me for donuts, or any other reason!
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006

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