25 ACP, again

Discussion in 'Centerfire Pistols & Revolvers' started by Alpo, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    There was a thread, a while back, about 25s, and how puny they were, and how much better a 22 was. I commented that folks might be surprised if they actually tested the calibers, in the same-type guns, instead of looking at ballistics charts, as the figures for 22 are taken in a rifle, and would be vastly different if shot from a "get off me" gun.

    This guy did just that. Interesting how puny the 22 is, compared to a 25, in identical guns.

    http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/128543-25-acp-ballistic-test-vs-22-long-rifle.html
  2. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Again the quote (supposedly from Jeff Cooper, but actually much older) that "if you shoot me with [in this case a .25] and I find out, you are in trouble."

    If Jeff Cooper really said that, he was a bigger blowhard than I thought he was. I have known of too many people killed with the little .25 (and .22's as well) to think that ANY gun is harmless.

    FWIW, I have always considered the .22 LR and .25 ACP equivalent when fired from short barrel pistols. Pressure is about the same (c. 24k psi) and bullet weight close enough (40 and 45 grain). Both will kill.

    Jim
  3. ofitg

    ofitg New Member

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    Evan Marshall tested .22 handguns and .25 handguns on 10% ordnance gelatin. He found that neither .22 HPs nor .25 HPs expanded properly, so you might as well stick with RN solids to get reliable feeding and maximum penetration -

    .22 Win 40 gr LRN @ 955 fps penetrated 12.8 inches
    .25 Rem 50 gr FMJ @ 710 fps penetrated 18.0 inches

    Drilling a 1/4" hole through somebody might "calm him down", but I've heard about people who got stabbed during fights and didn't even know it (until later)..... and then there are the stories about .22s and .25s bouncing off bad guys' skulls....
  4. Max Donovan

    Max Donovan Member

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    Ther was a shooting in Atlanta in about 1968, one shot with a 25 ACP at close range. Here is the story from the news, as best I remember it. The shootie was an MD plastic surgeon who was doing all the breast implants in Atlanta. The shooter was a customer. It happened at about 8 PM in the doctor's office. She apparently shot and left. It was a lung shot, a sucking chest wound, easily treated in an emergency room. He just needed to hold a finger tip over the wound to prevent the lung from deflating and phone for help. He didn't. The coroner said that he did stuff around his office for 20 to 30 minutes and finally drowned in blood when the lung cavity filled. He was found the nest morning. Hope this is useful information.
  5. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

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    Many years ago I bought a new Sterling 22 pocket gun. For a POS it actually functions well but it is just a belly gun. As to which is better a 22LR or 25ACP they both stink. Will they kill someone, probably but will they stop someone before they kill you? Thats the real question.

    With the small size of 380's now that is the least I would carry and I'm not in love with them either.
  6. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR New Member

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    I always thought of the .22 and 25 acp as surgical guns. If you wanted to kill a person with one you had to hit them in specific points. ie eye, ears, nose, or throat. Yeah, I agree that a 22 or 25 can't stop a person with intention but it will defiantly kill them if close enough.
  7. WILD CAT

    WILD CAT New Member

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    Years ago, quite a novice and short of money and experience, I bought an Armi Galesi pocket pistol in 25 ACP. Although it had not been fired a lot and looked like new. I was a real jammer although the ammunition was always factory full jacket. Being the first 25 I had, I wanted to see how effective was the caliber. Well at close range, two or three feet, the bullets constantly penetrated a 2 inch pine board and emerged from the other side with no deformation other than the rifling marks.

    Anyway, I don't imagine a 25 for self defense, sport or anything different from curios give the great variety of handguns available today.
  8. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

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    It could be a last ditch circle the wagons gun after your normal carry has run dry but your could also get a 32 or 380 in the same size so it makes no sense to buy one for self defense. I have a NAA 22 Mag SA Revolver that would serve that purpose as well and at 5 Oz it is lighter than most.
  9. Thomas_1

    Thomas_1 New Member

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    I think a lot of people look at the stats for one .25 bullet. My Beretta holds 8 shots in the clip and 1 in the chamber. If I fire on a bad guy it would be not just once but probably with all rounds in the clip and chamber. I think 5 or 6 .25's in a person would do some damage and enough trauma to stop the person.
  10. Danwin22

    Danwin22 Member

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    I've seen a lot of cute little .25 autos over the years but if I have to bet my life or protect my wife with a little gun it would be at least a .380.
  11. Teejay9

    Teejay9 New Member

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    I think the main problem with the .25 is that they come in "vest pocket" size. Given a larger gun, longer barrel, etc. they might prove useful. I've owned several over the years and got bored with them quickly. They were only useful, in my opinion, at a maximum range of 10 feet. I was lucky to hit what I was aiming at. It is not the caliber, so much as the size of the gun. Walther used to make a rather large .25 in the 20's, and they were probably much better than those little teeny ones that we're all so used to. Saying all this, I wouldn't want to take a hit with one :eek:. TJ
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  12. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

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    mauser also made a larger 25 acp on the same size frame as their 32 auto. it was a pleasure to fire and a lot easier to hit what you're aiming at than a beretta 950 or 21
  13. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    Most good .25s are very accurate. With a lot of practice, you can amaze people.
    Few shooters will take the time to learn to shoot a tiny gun.
  14. jondar

    jondar New Member

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    I used to shoot at the police range. I wasn't a cop but that was the only place to shoot and I weaseled my way in. One night one of the cops brought his hideout pistol, a Model 1908 Colt .25. At 15 yards he got two or three on the NRA 25 yard slow fire target. Also present was a Captain in the National Guard who had taken some trophies. He asked to shoot the .25. He fired once, on paper, then proceeded to put the remaining rounds within the eight ring. Most quality guns will shoot better than we can hold.
  15. Teejay9

    Teejay9 New Member

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    I had forgotten that one. I think they upgraded it during WWI to a .32 (much more power :D). TJ
  16. old semperfi

    old semperfi New Member

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    i live in southern indiana,old country boy at hear
    i have numerous pistols that i carry from time to time depending on the conditions,they go anywhere from a north american mini revolver in 22mag to my hand built colt(essex)45 acp.i shoot anywhere from 2-3000 rounds per month and have been doing it for over forty years.i did have to slow down when i was in the marine corps.if i had to shoot for my life and had the 22 then a round to the teeth or eye ball will stop anyone,you just need to practice for that kind of shot.22 or 25 shot placement is the ticket.....................old semperfi
  17. michael t

    michael t New Member

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    In early 80's I worked a lot of night shift . I was in parking garage and guy tried to rob me with a knife . my Beretta 950 in 25 saved the day he saw gun and disappeared . I shot a flack vest in Nam in 67 with a 25 . It was draped over a wooden coke case . Billet went thru flack vest and the wood coke case also. I have 5, 25 autos and 1, 22 short Astra Cub in my mouse collection. . I still drop Beretta in pocket at times . I had 950 in my pocket and was hit head on by a pick up truck in Nov 08. Deputy at wreck knew me. I gave him the Beretta to hold till wife got their . I didn't know till later. He couldn't clear the pistol Didn't know about tip up barrel Wife took and showed him how to clear . Then brought it home . I kid him about that yet today

    If I have to use the 25 I won't shoot just 1 shot it will be several.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2010
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