30-06 question

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by creektrails, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. creektrails

    creektrails New Member

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    First off, I'm new here and new to reloading. Ive been reading awhile and everyone here seems to be real helpful and I would like to thank you in advance.
    I just started reloading for my springfeild 06. Its the only gun that I am reloading for. I started with a full resizing and seated a sierra 150 grain boat tail with 54 grains of H414.
    I sighted in with factory ammo at 100 yrds and dialed it in good. I then fired my loads at 100 yrd today. They were all over. 10" spread.
    I also want to mention that my OAL when finished was 3.24 instead of 3.34 as suggested. I did this because my factory ammo was even shorter than that.
    I am going to jump up to 56 grains of 414 on my next loads and seat them longer but was wondering if you see anythng here that stands out that would make the spread so bad.
    Thanks
    Nate
  2. BobMcG

    BobMcG Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Welcome to TFF.

    What kind of rifle sighted in with what factory ammo... 150gr bullets? What size groups with the factory fodder?

    Humm, sounds like quite a difference. Three rounds or five rounds to get this big a group? All rounds fired under similar conditions in the same manner and pace and with an equally clean or fouled bore? Same rounds per group? Magazine fed or single shot fed?
    Also, just curious as to what sighting equipment you're using... something loosen up perhaps? Did you re-check with the factory ammo to verify that it still shot the same?

    Your load sounds just fine to me with a C.O.L. of 3.24" and should put you around the neighborhood of 1,700fps.
    You're sure of the powder weight that went into each cartridge? Are you using a crimp? If so, light or heavy? Is there any chance the bullets are being pushed into different seating depths by the action?

    Just some thoughts running through my mind before I hit the hay. I won't in touch with the Internet for a few days but others I'm sure will jump in to help you sort this out.

    Good luck.
  3. A-FIXER

    A-FIXER New Member

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    Well, confirm with another reloading book, and as for your factory rounds were the a soft point for example or were they the same bullet. When you reload each different bullet,weight,grain, will be different and the point is this the ogive will be different on each round, and will not match up on your particular rifle barrel lands the (rifling) it would also be a good idea to get O.A.L. gauge with a brass casing designed to allow you projectile to measure exactly your o.a.l. and back off a couple of thousands to be consistant each reload. You have been reloading for sometime now were they for pistol or other rifles? To sum my thoughts making your O.A.L. shorter they could be bouncing off the inside of the barrel rifling before they have a chance to stabilze.
    A-FIXER.
  4. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Active Member

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    Welcome to the forum Nate! There are several things you mentioned that "stand out" to me. When an OAL is specified in the load data, it is a MIN OAL. By seating deeper, you are decreasing the available capacity in the case, increasing pressures and increasing the jump the bullet has to make in the leade. Now I'm showing some different OAL's in the Sierra #5 and also cross referencing a similar bullet in Hornady #8 edition; Sierra is listing 3.225-3.250 depending on tip type. Hornady lists their #3033 bullet at 3.210. I don't think you're in any danger zone for seating too deep, but if the recipe you're using says 3.34, then I'd check it again, seems awfully long. Which manual did you get it from?

    Also, what Sierra bullet are you using? I don't see H414 listed in my Sierra manual, I only have the 5th ed of Sierra though.

    By the Hornady manual, the 54gn load is a mid load and the 56gn is approaching max. If you could supply your data source, I can see better what is happening.

    Woolley
  5. 5string

    5string Member

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    Ok
    I just dug out my manuals and they both state the SAAMI specifications printed in the load data is the maximum C.O.L. BUT! that may not be the length of the chamber in every gun for that caliber. The max C.O.L. for your gun would be when the bullet just touches the riflings. They reccommend 1/32 deeper seating depth.

    If the bullet is allowed to travel unsupported it has a chance of entering the bore off center resulting in poor accuracy.Thet further it has to travel unsupported the greater the chance of being misaligned.



    Hornady fourth edition is the one i'm reading out of. Plus the Speer manual that came with the RCBS press.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  6. creektrails

    creektrails New Member

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    I'll answer a few of your questions now and get back on this evening to see if I can answer the rest. The factory ammo was federal power shock 165 gr soft pts. My rifle is a 1903 springfeild 30-06 w/ a luepold 3x9 scope. I bench fire off bags but I dont have a sled or vice so I know its not perfect by any means. My final group w/factory was 2 inches with 1 flyer about 3 inches out and 2 through the center.
    My reloading info came from a hodgdons 2011 magazine. It say COL 3.25 with a Nosler 150 gr BT, 54 grain 414 min 60 grains max.
    I didnt crimp.

    I dont have my info with me but last night I put a bullet in a unprimed fired case and closed the bolt. I did this twice and I got a col of around 3.36. So i made five more rounds at 3.345 and put 56 grains in.
    Should I not fire these? are they to long? Im headed to church in a minute so Ill check back today before I fire these next five. Thanks

    edit: just remembered, I did clean my rifle w/ hoppes copper cleaner and brush before I fired my built loads. I hadnt ever cleaned the copper out of the barrel and the gun was made in 28. I was hoping to get the rifleing back but I hope I didnt screw things up.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  7. dardascastbullets

    dardascastbullets New Member

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    Hi Nate,

    I would not have chosen H414 as the powder of choice for any 30-06 load. You will realize GREAT results with Varget or 4895. I would start with Varget as it has proven to be a great powder. Your OAL will not have any marked affect on the accuracy of your load. It merely it a physical dimension to allow the round to feed properly. Make sure that you are indeed trimming your cases properly. The case mouths shall be completely devoid of brass shavings.
  8. BobMcG

    BobMcG Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Although H414 may not be everyone's first choice for 150s in the .30-06 (it's not mine) it still should work just fine in most cases.

    I took a quick look at the Hodgdon's loading manual for 150gr bullets and H414 and they list the 150gr Nolsler BT @ C.O.L. of 3.250"; the Sierra 155gr HPBT @ C.O.L. of 3.225". I didn't go to my loading room and grab my Sierra manual. Going by this, I didn't feel his C.O.L of 3.240" is way out of whack.

    His 165gr factory ammo is apples to oranges compared to his handload. Remember, he stated that the factory ammo has a shorter C.O.L. as well.
    The crimp could still be a factor and if the rifle has a long throat, (and now it seems it could) increasing the C.O.L could be needed.
  9. creektrails

    creektrails New Member

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    OK this is what I got today before the rain
    [​IMG]

    quite a bit better but still would like to be much tighter
    load was 3.345 COL w/ 56 grains H414,
    I will try 58 grains next.
    As was mentioned factory loads 165 grains were def. apples to grapefruit. It appears that I am hitting lower possibly due to the bullet weight and being a BT, I dont know but I wont play with the scope until I try the next load.
    Looks like rain tommorrow so Ill wait till tues or wed.
    Thanks for the comments i will probably switch powders after this can.
    all comments critisizm welcome.
  10. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    414 is a ball propellant and ball propellats are notorious for temperature sensitivity, were your range conditions similar on ALL your test days? Did you clean your bore after shooting? Did you switch anything component wise between range sessions???
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  11. creektrails

    creektrails New Member

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    Didnt clean the bore and it was a little warmer maybe 15 degrees today. What powder would you recomend Varget or IMR 4350?
  12. carver

    carver Moderator

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    I gotta watch this thread! No one has asked if the shots were fired cold bore, or not! This is gonna be fun!
  13. creektrails

    creektrails New Member

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    In the edit on post #6 i noted that I had just cleaned the barrel with copper solvent and that was before the bad spread.
    All the groups started with a cold bore. The pic that I posted I had not cleaned the bore but it started with shot 1 cold
    Would it be suggested to build and fire more than 5 rounds because of cold bore?
  14. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    I have always used IMR 4350 with the 06. Since 1948, in fact. My perferred load for competition and hunting was always the Sierra 180BT.

    When I tried the 165s in the mid-60s and again a decade ago, the 4350 worked well and gave me great accuracy. I also used this powder with my 220 Barnes, when I was in Alaska.

    One thing which bothers me just a bit, in looking at your posted target, is the shape of the holes. Depending on what backing (if any) there was behind the target, it appears that there might have been the beginning of a tumble. Look at the hole on #1 and, particularly, #3. If you have a good, solid backing to the target, and it is cardboard rather than plywood or some such, you should get nice round holes punched.

    What distance were you shooting? You might want to try a few different distances, in increments of 25 or 50 yards to check for tumble. You might not see a significant yaw until past 200 yards.

    The overall length of the cartridge doesn't matter until you get more than about 0.05 before the throat, or are actually impinging on the throat. One of my Rock Island 06s didn't care until I got to about 0.1 away from the throat.

    Just some thoughts.

    Pops
  15. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    clean the bore real good. use a copper solvent that indicates copper residue. I prefer Butchs Bore shine.

    Ball powders are great, but only when you use them in consistent weather. For a less finicky load use a stick powder. IMR4350 or H4350 would be a great start.
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