30-06 reloads question

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by hillbillypaul, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. hillbillypaul

    hillbillypaul New Member

    Jan 3, 2010
    New York
    I reload and shoot a Remington 7600 pump in 30-06. I size my cases with a small base die. They shoot real well out of my rifle. My stepson has a Ruger Hawkeye 77, my loads will not allow the bolt to close. I seated the bullet deeper with no success. Should i full length size for his rifle or is there another reason they will not fit? Thanks.
  2. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2009
    SW Fort Worth
    If you're using the small base die, then you're going a little futher than a standard FL die set will do, so the problem probably lies elsewhere. ( unless the sizing die isn't set up to completely size the case )

  3. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2009
    SW Fort Worth
    Check your case tolerances with a caliper and post your dimensions please. We should be able to figure this out for ya. Need dimension at the base, mid and neck, then OAL, bullet type.
  4. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    my guess on this one is your small base die is set to 'necksize for your pump and the length is longer than the M77 chamber will allow, set that sizer die to touch the shellholder and they should fit both rifles...
  5. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2009
    Simla, Colorado
    I'd bet that JLA and Wollyworm have it - the shoulder of your cases are 'set-forward' and your dies are not adjusted to set it back. Re-check you loading dies and make sure they are screwed down properly adjusted to the shell holder.

    The seating depth has nothing to do with it. Seat your bullets to the Over All Length as stated in your reloading manual. If you seat them deeper, you can raise the pressure levels. If you seat them out too far you can have the bullet enter the rifleing and do the same thing. Play it safe and seat them as listed in your manual.

    In my very humble opinion, and I KNOW that there are guys with as much - or more loading experiance as I have who will argue with me till the cows come home - full length sizing is ALMOST all you will ever need to do. As long as you are sizeing the case back to factory specs they should chamber in most any rifle of that caliber. But that is just MY humble opinion.

    Sometimes Neck Sizeing is appropriate, and I'm sure there has to be the rifle that requires Small Base Sizeing. But keep in mind that I just buy my Wrangler jeans at Wallyworld. I neck size for my .303, but everything else gets fed a diet of Full Length sized brass. No hiccups yet......
  6. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    Well, Jim, the seating depth can have something to do with it. I've got two rifles in 9.3x57. One has a shorter chamber than the other. The bullet area of the chamber is longer on one. If I load for the longer gun, when I chamber one of them in the shorter gun it sometimes will push the bullet deeper into the case, and sometimes will not allow the bolt to close.

    But, more than likely it is what the others have said. If it was me, I'd try chambering an unloaded, sized case. If it'll chambers, then it's not the sizing die setup. If it still won't chamber, than the shoulder is most likely too far forward.
  7. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2009
    SW Fort Worth
    I have found several people who have no real idea of what a small base die set does; they just assume that it must be better, when in reality, it's the exact opposite unless you have a firearm that absolutely requires it or if you have a number of semi-auto's chambered in the same caliber. A small base die set is just a FL die set that goes a few thousandths more on the sizing when set up properly. When the smaller sized case is in a chamber in which a standard FL or neck sized cartridge would fit and function properly; the small base sized case has to expand and "work" more. The brass is then worked more when resized; unneccesary if you can FL size and not have any problems.

    Hope this helps explain SB die's a little bit.
  8. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    I have yet to have to have a set.
  9. Gamemaster 760

    Gamemaster 760 New Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    Woolyworm gets an A+ on his report card.

    I couldn't have said it better.
    We have 9 Gamemaster 760 - 30-06 and 2 Gamemaster .270's and 1 - Model 6 Remington rifle and we have 3 or 4 sets of dies for the 30-06 of different manufacturers and two different sets of dies for the .270 and none of them are small base die's and we have never experienced any problems with getting the shells to fit in the rifles chambers.

    Add to that - I have probably owned another dozen or so Gamemasters on top of that and none of them refused to chamber any of the rounds that we reloaded with any of the dies we used.

    On average - we can reload our shells - back to factory standards - maybe a little over - 57 gr IMR4350 and 150 gr bullets about 6 times before we experience any brass failures.

    Most times the brass tends to separate from the head-stamp about 1/2 inch to 3/4 of a inch from the bottom.
    More times then not - it comes from over working the brass.

    The neck of the shell is very soft and even if the bullet was too far forward - all it would do in a bolt action rifle would be to push the bullet back into the shell. You would see indications of marks in the bullet if you extracted it before you fired it if you got it to chamber in the bolt action rifle you are talking about.

    Just for kicks and giggles - I would take it to a competent gunsmith and have them check the head spacing.

    I would also pull the bullets out of the shells that you pushed the bullets back a little further - because I do not know how much powder you used in your loads - but 57 gr in my book is a compressed load and when you push the bullet back - depending on which brand of brass you are using - you could cause excessive chamber pressure from not having enough room inside of the brass for the powder and bullet.
    Military brass tends to be thicker and the shell capacity is smaller - the amount of grains of water that the case will hold - and so at times you have to back the load off a little even when dealing with what the book says is ok.

    JMHO and you can take it for what it is worth.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  10. hillbillypaul

    hillbillypaul New Member

    Jan 3, 2010
    New York
    Thank everyone. The info gave me some needed knowledge. I have been reloading for 1 yr. the load my 7600 likes best is 50.6 gr IMR 4064 case length and seating depth by manual specs. Groups are .75" average at 100 yrds. Must have done something right even if by luck. Hate to change my dye. I think I may buy a FL die for the bolt gun and adjust it for the bolt gun. Paul
  11. A-FIXER

    A-FIXER New Member

    Jan 25, 2009
    Throwing this out, has your brass been trimmed to proper length?
  12. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    West, TX
    .75" out of a 7600 is hard to accomplish, so you are surely doing something right.
  13. dardascastbullets

    dardascastbullets New Member

    Dec 21, 2008
    Essexville, MI
    I would highly recommend that you purchase an RCBS Case Gage for your 30-06. This gage will solve your problem(s) in just a few minutes. It is an invaluable tool to have! It will help you to headspace your brass to match that of the rifle's headspace. And it will allow you to determine where your correct seating depth should be. I believe that once you read about the gage you will want to purchase one. You will always use it!
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