30 caliber round nose/flatnose

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by Guest, Feb 24, 2003.

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    frostyduck
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (1/3/03 9:21:35 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del All 30 caliber round nose/flatnose
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    Have a question regarding loading 150-170 grain round nose and flat nose bullets in .308 and 30.06. These bullets are normally cataloged as 30.30 rounds,...can they take the velocities of the hotter cartridges. e.g. Nosler makes a 170gr. FP interlock, so I assume it will do the job. Can't find these bullet examples in my two reloading manuals,...assume I can use loads suggested for similar bullet weights. Any help????

    Thanks for the responses,....I read an interesting article about the benefits of RN/FP by Venturino in ST magazine. Am looking for a (hopefully) quicker stop on elk,...they are tuff son-sa-guns!!! Try to keep my shots under 200 yd., time to get closer if they are past that! tnx

    Edited by: frostyduck at: 1/3/03 10:33:12 pm

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3406
    (1/3/03 10:14:20 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 30 caliber round nose/flatnose
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    Hi Frostyduck2.....welcome to TFF.

    .308, .30-06, and .30-30 all use the same diameter bullet....308. The reason that RN and Flat Tip bullets are listed for the .30-30 is that many rifles in that caliber are lever action, tube feed.

    With a tube feed, you don't want to use a pointed bullet because a shock could cause the bullet point to set off the primer (and thus, the round) of the cartridge ahead of it in the tube.

    There's really no advantage to using a RN of FT bullet in a magazine rifle. Ballistically, Spire Point bullets are superior to the RN and FT, and they seem to mushroom just as well......which is probably why the RN & FT aren't listed in .308 and '06.

    As to whether or not you can use RN or FT in a .308 or '06.....you probably can, but be very careful. Start with minimum loads and work up from there.

    inplanotx
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 100
    (1/3/03 10:17:23 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 30 caliber round nose/flatnose
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    Hi Frosty and welcome to TFF.

    As far as bullet shape is concerned, there should be no problem with using the FP or RN bullets in .308 or .30-06. The difference comes into play with the ballistic coefficient of the projectile. So if you are looking for a 150 to 200 yd. kill, then you should be fine. Longer range, the velocity would fall off quickly with the lower BC of the FP or RN. Hope this helps.

    Improvise...Adapt...Overcome

    WyomingSwede
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 658
    (1/4/03 9:37:27 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 30 caliber round nose/flatnose
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    I have had great luck on elk with a 220 gr x bullet. Hits like the hammer of Thor. Also with the 220 RN from hornady.

    swede
    Wyoming Swede

    Tailgunner1954
    Member
    Posts: 36
    (1/4/03 11:17:39 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Bullet choice
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    Th 30-30 bullets will load and shoot fine, but on anything larger than a woodchuck you won't like them, and for somthing as large as a elk there a bad idea.
    There is another bullet design parameter to consider (besides BC, etc.), that being the impact velocity and how it effects the bullets proformance.
    A bullet designed to expand in a relativly slow rifle (like the 30-30 with it's MV of 2000-2200fps) will over expand in a higher velocity rifle (like a 30-06 with it's MV of 2700-2900fps). The reverse is true also, A bullet designed to expand in the higher velocity rifle will act like a non-expanding bullet (FMJ) in the low velocity rifle.


    frostyduck
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (1/5/03 12:03:24 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Bullet choice
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    Therein lies my dillema. Doesn't anyone make a RN bullet suitable for velocities in 30.06 or .308. Hornady's 170 gr. FP is an interlock design. Are we thinking about 30-30 bullets from 1965 while dealing with components form 2003. If you can get the article,...Mike Venturino wrote a good article in Sept 02 Shooting Times about RN bullets. He did not really address the questions we have here, but makes a good case. Thanks for the good discourse frodu

    frostyduck
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (1/5/03 12:19:37 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 30 caliber round nose/flatnose
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    Yo Swede,
    Thanks for the reply. What are you shooting the 220gr. in. Seems a little large for 30-06 or .308,....! Better for a .300mag?? Regardless, I appreciate the response and discussion. I find 150 and 170gr. bullets, usually annotated (30.30). Find 180gr Hornady with out that annotation. Guess the thing to do is contact the company, to find answers to those questions brought up by T-gunner. I was concerned about the issues he raised, thought maybe there was an easy answer,...but maybe none of us have the RIGHT answer,..except the manufacturer! This is good to have the chance to bounce ideas off one another. Like hearing your experience with the 220gr. You would enjoy the article I mention in my reply to T-gunner. If it's not available on the internet,...send you e-mail and I could copy and forward it to you!! Oh....wanted to mention,...my dear sweet old grandmother used to say..."20,000 svedes, running tru da veeds,..chased by one Norvegian". Sorry, couldn't help myself



    Edited by: frostyduck at: 1/5/03 12:24:08 pm

    inplanotx
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 106
    (1/5/03 12:51:13 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: 30 caliber round nose/flatnose
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    Hi Frosty,
    In Hornadys 4th edition load book they list the following for the 30-06

    Bullet 150gr RN #3035 highest velocity shown 3000fps
    180gr RN #3075 2800fps
    220gr RN #3090 2500fps

    The 180 and 220 gr loads should knock an elk into the next county.

    Here are the ballistics on the above at max loads and 100yd zero:

    150gr RN #3035
    initial velocity = 3000 fps
    energy at muzzle = 2997 ft/lbs
    drop at 200 yds = -4.1"
    energy at 200 yds = 2063 ft/lbs

    180gr RN #3075
    initial velocity = 2800 fps
    energy at muzzle = 3133 ft/lbs
    drop at 200 yds = -4.4"
    energy at 200 yds = 1746 ft/lbs

    220gr RN #3090
    initial velocity = 2500 fps
    energy at muzzle = 3053 ft/lbs
    drop at 200 yds = -5.6 "
    energy at 200 yds = 1873 ft/lbs

    Hornady 170 gr FP
    highest velocity shown is 2700 fps
    energy at muzzle = 2751 ft/lbs
    drop at 200 yds with 100 yds zero = -5.5"
    energy at 200 yds = 1271 ft/lbs

    This data is from the book shown above.

    They also list the 180 and 150gr RN under the .308 load data.
    The numbers shown above is Hornadys catalog bullet number.
    Hope this helps.


    Improvise...Adapt...Overcome

    Tailgunner1954
    Member
    Posts: 37
    (1/5/03 3:40:29 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Roundnose/flatnose
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    Hornady lists 2 bullets specificaly as being for the 30-30, Nosler 1, Sierra 3, Speer 3. Except for the Nosler partition RN (the only RN partition they make) all the rest are flat nose. The above bullets are the ones I'd worry about using at higher velocities.
    The other RN bullets these companies make are designed for the velocities your looking at with your 308/30-06 class rifle.
    If you truly feel the need for a FN design in your rifle you might consider trimming some of the lead off a regular RN.
    If you get a chance look into Norberts "super penatrator" design, it's a radicaly designed FN solid bullet (it's designed for ADG hunting) he's using a standoff flatnose design to cavitate and vaporise the body fluids inorder to eliminate any tumbling inside the target.

    frostyduck
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (1/5/03 5:16:11 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Roundnose/flatnose
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    This has been good discussion. I've mislead by generalizing,...I'm not partial to flat nose, actually probably more inclined to round nose, but have been grouping the two together... am just on hornady's website gleaning more info.

    Thanks for suggestions/encouragement.......fd
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