.410 Hand Guns

Discussion in 'Centerfire Pistols & Revolvers' started by rustyfugger, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. rustyfugger

    rustyfugger New Member

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    I have a friend who owns a H&R .410 Pistol, single shot w/ 12" barrel. At one time these were classified as a shotgun and therefore the 12" barrel made it illegal. Now w/ the new .410 pistols like the Taurus Judge, and others that are now making these .410 / .45 pistols, is the H&R "Snake Charmer" still an ilegal firearm?:confused:
  2. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    It's the smoothbore barrel under 18" that makes it illegal...

    IIRC the "Judge" has a rifled barrel and probably doesn't shoot any kind of a pattern with shot. (But it really doesn't matter at the ranges it is intended for.)
  3. mjp28

    mjp28 Well-Known Member

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    This is the one I'm still looking at, $679 MSRP, $899 with Crimson Laser Sites.

    [​IMG]
  4. geds

    geds New Member

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    This looks like a great home defense weapon! Use number 6 shot to prevent penetration through walls and collateral damage. Thoughts?
  5. Brisk44

    Brisk44 New Member

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    I've got the Taurus 2.5 chamber model. These things have their place. Mine's an excellent puppie protector. With a combination of shot shells, buckshot and slugs it covers anything that might come along be it from the air or on the ground.
  6. mjp28

    mjp28 Well-Known Member

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    A little might depend on your situation, do you have kids? Multi-apartments? Pets? Live alone in your own home? Want knock down power regardless (been threatened before?)

    With just my wife and myself in our home I want some zzzzzap if I have to shoot. My wife has a .22MAG 6 shooter with hollow points.
  7. geds

    geds New Member

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    It is just me and missus most of the time. Kids come home from school from time to time. I was thinking more along the lines of the thread about apartment dwellers.
  8. fuzebox40

    fuzebox40 Active Member

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    Been lookin at that same gun lately. It'll probably just stay on my wish list but oh I like it!
  9. geds

    geds New Member

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    How is the kick? Would this be too much for my wife - she is not an experienced shooter.
  10. mjp28

    mjp28 Well-Known Member

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    Yes whole different story if you're talking two pieces of drywall and maybe some insulation. Then shotgun blasts might be OK (not even near 00 stuff).

    A .22LR would probably go right through a wall like that.
  11. mjp28

    mjp28 Well-Known Member

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    A .410 rifle is nothing for a guy, I'd really suggest your wife (and mine, a non shooter, I'm a 40+ year shooter) go to a range or gun shop with a test range start small and work her way up, most are surprised how easy it gets.
  12. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    The new .410 revolvers are pistols, not shotguns, according to the legal definitions. They are originally designed to be fired one-handed and not from the shoulder, and they have a rifled barrel. (It doesn't have to be rifled very much to count. This Taurus Judge is rifled one spin in 12 inches, but the barrel is only 2.5 inches long, so it doesn't even spin 1/4 turn in that barrel. :cool:)

    If you take an item that was once a shotgun and make it into a handgun, it's a short barreled shotgun (which requires a tax stamp anywhere in the US and is outright illegal in Indiana). If you take an item that was once a handgun and make it into a shotgun, it's now a shotgun forever. If you want to make it into a handgun again, you have to get the tax stamp same as turning any other shotgun into a handgun.
    But since these things start as handguns, it doesn't matter that they fire the .410. Now, if they were to fire a 28 gauge shell (as Taurus planned to do) or larger, then they would qualify as destructive devices and again require the tax stamp.

    Confused yet?
  13. Boris

    Boris Former Guest

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    I have a Super Comanche single shot 45/410 pistol and it has a straight rifled full choke 10" barrel. It shoots as tight as my 19" barrel H&R snake charmer. Throws a slug good enough to whack yotes to 40 yards and bag lots of meat for the table. The riffling is so slow it don't stabilize anything heavier than 225 grains with 45s. Buckshot and the 3" PDX1 pattern good enough for a 15 yard defense gun. The 10" barrel don't seem to hurt velocity much. It gets just as much pellet penetration with shot as longer barrels do.

    I love it and it cost less than $200.00. Great little pistol.....
  14. carver

    carver Moderator

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    If the shoot you chose for HD won't penetrate dry wall, will it stop an intruder? Think about it. If it won't penetrate dry wall, it won't penetrate much more than an intruders hide either. To stop a critter you must be able to reach vital organs, no matter what kind of critter you are trying to stop.
  15. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    You want confusion?

    Hello, ATF? What is the difference between a rifle and a shotgun?

    A SHOTGUN HAS A SMOOTH BORE AND A RIFLE HAS A RIFLED BORE.

    Thank you. So if I take my Remington 870 with the smoothbore barrel, I can hunt deer in Illinois, where it is "shotgun only"?

    THAT IS CORRECT.

    But if I put a Hasting's rifled barrel on it, it is now a rifle, and is no longer legal for deer in Illinois?

    NO, IT IS STILL A SHOTGUN.

    But you said that shotguns were smoothbore, while rifles were rifled. It is now rifled. Why is it still a shotgun?

    BECAUSE IT IS CHAMBERED FOR A SHOTGUN SHELL.

    Oh. That makes sense, I guess. So the Taurus Judge is a shotgun, and requires an NFA tax stamp?

    NO, THE TAURUS JUDGE IS A PISTOL.

    Why is it a pistol? It is chambered for a shotgun shell.

    BECAUSE IT HAS A RIFLED BARREL.

    That does not make any sense.

    WE DO NOT HAVE TO MAKE SENSE. WE ARE THE ATF. WE MAKE THE RULES.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  16. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, we're still just scratching the surface.

    A string is a machine gun, but a slide fire stock is not. And so on... :rolleyes:
  17. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    EXACTLY!!! Gotta love it!!
  18. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    ...what I thought i knew....so, The Judge that is rifled and shoots slugs, buckshot and .45lc's.....and a rifled, say Rem 870....IS THE JUDGE a SHOTGUN?:banghead::lmao2:
  19. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    Probably not because it also shoots 45 Colt. Now a rifled 870 in .410 might be an interesting question. Would it also shoot 45 Colt and therefore become a rifle??
  20. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    Expounding on Alpo's post...which is a very good one concerning how confusing the ATF can make things.

    The Taurus Judge, S&W Governor, and the T/C Contender .45LC/.410 are all considered handguns because they are chambered for the .45LC.
    It is just a neat and convenient coincidence that they use a chamber long enough to also accept a .410 shotshell so they can market it that way. Doesn't matter if they mark it as a dual-caliber weapon, the .45LC chambering and the rifled barrel are all that's needed to satisfy the NFA'34 rules.
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