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45 ACP Primer question(s)

2K views 21 replies 11 participants last post by  Bindernut 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey Guys,

Going to start loading 45 ACP for the first time. I have 700 XTP 185gr bullets I got from hornady for buying my press and dies. Nice bullets, but probably overkill for the paper target shooting I mostly do.

Found 300 Remington 2 1/2 LPP at a LGS today. Happy to find any reloading supplies locally.

The .45 recipe I have calls for CCI300's - can I just use the Remington 2 1/2's interchangeably?

Also, I'm finding my 45 brass selection has a mix of LPP and SPP cases. For this reason I'm decapping everything first (even though I have a progressive) and will sort them accordingly.

EDIT: Removed the SPP/LPP count - I have mostly LPP brass after properly separating it. Still, no way I could use the progressive without separating by hand first.

I have a good supply of SPP, CCI 500's - can I use those in the cases that have SPP with the same load data?

Thanks for any thoughts on the matter.
 
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#3 ·
The problem of mixed small and large primers for .45 ACP has been mentioned often in these forums recently. It seems to be becoming more common, rather than less, to see a mix instead of a single standard. That's a shame.

The primer contributes some, but not much of the propulsion energy to the bullet, and variations among brands are not going to be significant enough to make a large difference to any but real serious target shooters. Go ahead and mix brands at will, so long as you're loading low to medium speed loads. If you plan to load the top range, approach it carefully and slowly and you should be quite safe.

As far as the large vs small primer differences, I don't know for sure. Unlike the tiny differences among brands for the same purpose, large and small pistol primers are entirely different, meant for different applications. I doubt, though, that loading a middle range charge for a SPP, using a LPP, will be hazardous. With a larger charge, I'd expect the LPP to ignite more of the case powder initially than the SPP would light, and that's going to cause the case pressure to peak faster. I have no idea whether that's dangerous or not, but I'd definitely start with smaller powder charges when I'm loading with LPPs until I know how my gun behaves.
 
#4 ·
Concerning performance between SP and LP .45 brass, I've not chronographed any appreciable difference in velocity between large and small primers.
I do use the same loads in either brass...but I did lower the charge weight and work back up when I first started messing with the SP brass. Dropping off and working back up to a load after any component change is the #1 tenet for reloading anyway.
The only basic change between a regular large pistol primer and a regular small pistol primer is the physical size. From my testing over the chrony, any differences in a hotter or colder flame affecting powder ignition aren't any different than changing just the brand of one size of primer.
It would be interesting to see some testing done with a pressure rig to see exactly what differences are there.


Now...
If you've got some of the earlier non-toxic small-primer brass that has a larger flash hole than a regular LP or SP case does, then you might not want to use those cases for heavy-full power loads. The larger flash hole can let more pressure back into the primer pocket which might cause problems.
These non-toxic cases have an obviously larger flash hole so they're pretty easy to spot. They also will have some sort of NT marking on the headstamp too.
I've eventually wound up either losing or junking the few of this style case that I had scrounged but I loaded em for several years with mild to mid-range loads with no problems.
 
#5 ·
I also tested large and small pistol primers in .45 ACP, but all I did was load both with the same weight of powder, same bullet, and same COL then shoot from a rest. I fired several five shot groups using each primer size and could tell any difference in group size or impact point.
 
#7 ·
For the few SPP 45 cases I run across I set them aside and do not use them since I'm loading on an AP press and I don't want to bother with them - maybe someday I will.

I substitute any (non mag) LPP brand primer from the manual for what I have on hand. I usually buy CCI or Win.

I too have a bunch of 185 gr XTP bullets. I will not use them for target shooting but instead for emergency SD rounds. All my guns are loaded with factory HPs, SpeerGold Dot, Federal HS or Hornady Critical Defense.
 
#9 ·
Re: the "switching from CCI to Remington - "start low and work up".

I've heard that advice, for years. Whenever you change ANYTHING in a load, "reduce your load by 10% and work back up".

I can see that, if I'm loading full-power magnum rifle loads. But I never load "full-power" anything, and we're talking 45 auto here.

When I switched from CCI to WW primers in 38, that's all I did - switch primers. The Winchester kicked more. I tried 'em side-by-side in the same gun. White primer and yellow primer - easy to tell. Yep. WW kicked more with the same powder charge. But my loads weren't maximum, they slide right out with no pressure signs.

So I continued with the same charge. I've got some Mag-Tech primers, now. Bought 'em a few years back when CCI went up over 100 dollars for 5000. When I finally run out of CCI or WW, and have to go with the Mag-Tech, I'll just use the same load.

So I'd just "use 'em". I see no need, with something as low-powered as a 45 auto, to do the "back down and work up" stuff.

Unless you are loading +P+, which is a stupid thing to do anyway.
 
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#10 ·
Guys - very much appreciate your thoughts here.

I don't load "hot" - not my thing. I'm a paper target shooter. Shoot for fun.

It does seem like a waste to use all the hollow points, but my only option is to sell 'em and buy round nose FMJ's and I don't want to deal with the hassle. I suppose I could save a box for SD rounds - but I usually buy those.

After about 350 cases that I have 15 SPP. I also have noticed several with very small flash holes, and about 50 with larger flash holes.
 
#12 ·
I'm with Alpo on this one. You're not going to be loading high pressure loads so the switch in primers should not make much of a difference if any at all. Sort out the SPP brass and keep them aside until you have enough worth loading. If you're just plinking, I'd save the Hornady and order some Berrys, Xtreme or Ranier bullets. Load the Hornadys for SD.
 
#13 ·
I am with this too. I don't change a powder load just because I change whose primer I use. As far as the brass with small primer pockets, the last bunch I had (which wasn't very many) I sent them to somebody, I think it was Alpo. I came across one of them yesterday and because it was aluminium I just threw it away.
 
#14 ·
I would be interested in buying your Hornady 45 cal 185 XTPs. I'm assuming you have 6 boxes of 100? PM me if you are interested.
Thanks for the thought - I'll hang onto 'em and use em. Probably buy some berry's at some point too.

Actually never gave much thought to making my own SD rounds, but I suppose I could do that and really dial in the load to suit my pistol(s).
 
#17 ·
I don't go to public ranges very often, so my experience with SPP brass is almost non existent. I do believe that it makes no difference in the end result. I would separate the SPP from the LPP, and never mix them. Everything I load is for SD, or hunting. This is the same round I shoot at targets. I don't carry my home brew, I carry store bought ammo designed for SD. I try to buy Winchester large primers for standard, or magnum pistol. One primer works for .45ACP, or .44 Mag.
 
#18 ·
I would separate the SPP from the LPP, and never mix them.
That's what I do...the small primer stuff stays separate from the large primer stuff.
When I first started finding them (after the local law-enforcement range got closed and they started using the public range), I just stockpiled them until I had enough to make a decent sized batch for loading.

If I was the OP, I'd segregate and hang onto those few SP cases and wait to see if more turn up.
It does sound like he's got a few of the earlier large-flash hole cases in the bunch too. The ones I had of that type I did wind up scrapping just so I didn't wind up loading em with a hardball load and MAYBE having problems.
 
#19 ·
I really don't think you would have a problem with the large flash hole cases. These cases were made to shoot .45 hard ball, and SD ammo. I can see no reason for not reloading them. I would if I had any.
 
#20 ·
Concerning performance between SP and LP .45 brass, I've not chronographed any appreciable difference in velocity between large and small primers.
I do use the same loads in either brass...but I did lower the charge weight and work back up when I first started messing with the SP brass. Dropping off and working back up to a load after any component change is the #1 tenet for reloading anyway.
The only basic change between a regular large pistol primer and a regular small pistol primer is the physical size. From my testing over the chrony, any differences in a hotter or colder flame affecting powder ignition aren't any different than changing just the brand of one size of primer.
It would be interesting to see some testing done with a pressure rig to see exactly what differences are there.

Now...
If you've got some of the earlier non-toxic small-primer brass that has a larger flash hole than a regular LP or SP case does, then you might not want to use those cases for heavy-full power loads. The larger flash hole can let more pressure back into the primer pocket which might cause problems.
These non-toxic cases have an obviously larger flash hole so they're pretty easy to spot. They also will have some sort of NT marking on the headstamp too.
I've eventually wound up either losing or junking the few of this style case that I had scrounged but I loaded em for several years with mild to mid-range loads with no problems.
What you said about NT primed brass having a different size flash hole I also thought to be true. I brought this up on a past post, and was told by ?????? that this was not true. Where I'm going with this is I purchased a large amount of once fired .45ACP, all large primer cases at a local gun show. All are Winchester made brass with different types of head stamps. When preparing the brass for future use I came across several with flash holes of about 5/64" in diameter, barely enough of a ledge in the bottom of the primer pocket to seat a primer on. I thought these may have been NT primed cases until I found some of them with the NT stamp on them with normal sized flash holes. What do I have, early NT cases or defective brass?
 
#22 · (Edited)
Like Alpo said, you've got some of the earlier NT cases. All of mine are marked NT though...I've never seen any WW stamped brass with large holes and no NT headstamp but they might've done it that way in the beginning too.
What I've heard was that those first non-lead primer compounds didn't have as hot of a flame as a regular primer so they used a large flash hole to ensure good ignition. The current "unleaded" primers that use a DDNP compound are supposed to be equal to a regular primer now so they can use the same size flash hole.

I've been using those large flash hole cases just for lighter loads, but as carver mentioned some of em are factory loaded at full hardball level so they would probably be just fine with full power loads.

Most of the current NT brass I get from the range in the last few years after the local PD is done has normal sized flash holes but is small-primer, so all I have to worry about with them is sorting by primer pocket size.
 
#21 ·
Early NT. Before the term NT was being used.

Winchester invented 'em, I believe, at least they were the first brand I'd ever seen. Large primers and HUGE flash-holes.

Winchester told me they were safe to load, but I've never tried. Have enough REAL brass that funky brass is stored back - for emergencies.
 
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