45 ACP Primer

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by bizy, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. bizy

    bizy New Member

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    I haven't seen it yet, but my son-in-law said he bought a load of brass for the 45 ACP. He asked me about the small primmer it had.
    Has anyone seen these cases/ammo?
  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Both Winchester and Federal (maybe others, but I know these two do) have come out with a new line of "Non Toxic" ammo. It does not use lead in the priming mixture. Supposed to be good for the environment (green), but mostly be safer for use in an indoor range. When the Winchester first came out, it used a regular LP size primer, but the flash-hole was gigantic. Apparently they weren't as hot as normal primers, so they needed a bigger hole.

    Now Winchester uses a SP size. So does Federal. If your son-in-law takes a look at the headstamps of this brass, I'm fairly certain it will be marked NT.

    It's loadable. Kind of a pain to keep segregated from your other 45 brass with large primers, but loadable.
  3. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    Ditto on what Alpo says about it being a pain. I only have a few (don't know where I got them) but they get mixed up in with all the other .45 brass. You are going along reloading on your progressive press when it comes to a screaching halt as you hit one of them. I "try" to keep them separate and prime them using my ram prime on my single stage press then skip the priming step on my Dillon and go on with them, after first resizing and depriming.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
  4. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    I just came in from loading a hundred fifty .45 ACP and there was 7 of them with the regular brass. I just don't know how they get mixed in with my brass, I have never bought any NT ammo. The only thing I can think of is that they must be range pick-ups.

    Bizy, here is a picture of one next to one with a regular large pistol primer. It is not a great close up picture but I think you can see the difference in primer size. I even had a problem putting a small pistol primer in four of them, had to trim the primer pocket on them!!
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  5. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Why not just throw those cases in the trash? The pennies lost is not offset by the efforts required to segregate these case from the rest.

    Reloading them is just pushing the problem onto the next reloading session. Having to segregate them when they are so absolutely similar to other cases is a pain. You have to inspect ever case to be sure it is not one of the few NT cases. That adds effort not necessary. Unless you can totally segregate them and have enough of them to make it worth while, they just cause you to expend un-necessary effort.

    LDBennett
  6. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends on how many you have.

    I toss my SP 45 brass in the scrap bin. With thousands of 45 brass, and only a couple hundred of the weird stuff, that's easier.

    But WW 7.62x39 brass uses a LR primer, while RP uses a SP. I've got so little reloadable brass for that caliber that I segregate, even thought it is a pain in the keister.
  7. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    I've ended up with about 50 of them. I do keep the ones I loaded separate but still end up picking up some every range visit, I guess. I just know I have never bought any. I could just throw them away, but it is not a big deal to inspect every case since I do it anyway, I just look for one more thing. It is also just another step or two in the loading process that I have to do for them, and since I just plain enjoy reloading, it is no problem.
  8. Texxut

    Texxut Member

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    Does that change the load any? LP / SP primer, all else being the same?
  9. bizy

    bizy New Member

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    Thanks guys. I learn something every visit here...
  10. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Certainly it will change. Anything you do to a load - different brand of bullet, different lot of cases, different primer - will cause some change. If you were using it for 25-yard Bullseye shooting, I would suggest not using them, because it could cause your group size to change.

    But, in the grand reality of life, where most people are making their 45 ACP loads to be capable of holding minute-of-goblin at 15 yards, it shouldn't make a difference that is noticeable.
  11. TheWatchman

    TheWatchman New Member

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    This is the brass in question, So as you can see in the pictures there are 3 brands of brass with this small primer hole. Speer, Federal, and Fiochi. One picture has some blazer brass for comparison. Thanks for helping us clear this primer anomaly up and yes I am the son-in-law of the bizy one.:D

    Attached Files:

  12. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    those damn flash holes are massive!!!
  13. TheWatchman

    TheWatchman New Member

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    YEP! That's how I discovered them too, and I managed to break the primer slide and rail on my Hornaday LNL AP in the process.:mad:
  14. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    That Speer brass does not have NT on it that I can see and the flash holes are huge!! I thought that just the Non-Toxic ammo had the small primers! Maybe the large flash holes are compensating for the small primers??
  15. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Where you seeing them huge holes in Speer? Top pic, brass on R/H side has huge holes, but says Federal. Top brass is Speer, with small hole. Bottom brass, can't tell because of flash glare, but it has small hole. L/H brass has large hole, but again, flash glare makes it non-readable. Bottom pic, L/H brass has large hole, but is Fiochhi. Three on top say Speer, but appear to be small hole.
  16. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Attempting to use Non-Toxic (NT) brass with NT primers and huge primer holes in the brass is a nightmare. Dump all the NT brass and buy some real brass readily available through any one of hundreds of dealers on the internet or in your local area. If your indoor range doesn't care that you are not shooting NT ammo why bother with it at all. The primer hole, and the NT primer effect the pressure levels (up or down... who knows?????). Gentle primers, like the NT primers, MAY affect the reliability of ignition of the ammo. Why fool around with it at all??? Popular caliber pistol brass is not that costly!

    LDBennett
  17. TheWatchman

    TheWatchman New Member

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    Sorry bout the flash, I'm an amateur photographer. Here are some better pictures. The first set of brass is Winchester with regular larger primer for comparison. The rest are all small primers of Fiocchi, Federal NT, and Speer.

    Attached Files:

  18. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    Alpo, I was not saying the Speer brass had the huge flash holes. Just happened to put them in the same sentence, sorry!!
  19. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    I like the speer brass, wouldnt mind having a bundle of it just to ease the stress on my LP primer supply;)
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