.45 is .410 is 10.414MM?

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by Grumpytrkr, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. Grumpytrkr

    Grumpytrkr New Member

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    OK, my brother-in-law asked a question, and I don't have the answer. I did a search on the forum, and didn't come up with any answers, and I'm guessing you people who reload knows where I can get a chart.

    He asked what is the .45 in metric. So, I'm guessing .410 bore size, which is 10.4mm, correct?

    38/357 would be 9.0678MM

    Now, what about the 44 and the 40?

    Thanks for the help. No, I don't reload, that is why I'm turning to you for help.

    Grumpy
  2. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Active Member

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    a .45 caliber bore is a metric 11.4 mm

    a 45 bore is a wee bit larger diameter than a .410 at the 10.4mm as you stated. Still can shoot 410 and 45LC in the same firearm, so long as its designed for it, ie the Taurus Judge. I still have yet to fire one of those, would love to get my hands on one to try it out.

    the 44spl is an 11mm and the 40 cal is a 10mm


    think this answers your questions, welcome to TFF and hope you enjoy it here! Seen ya around on another site too; I cruise a few others, but like to call TFF home.

    looked again and i didn't get all of your question, best chart i could find was on wiki - do a wiki search for caliber and mid-article is a great caliber chart.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
  3. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    USA firearms makers have often taken "great liberties" in naming calibers. Most .44" caliber bores are actually .43 caliber (0.429"); but "cap & ball" (percussion) revolvers called 44's are usually 45's (typically about 0.454").

    I was recently advised by a major choke tube maker, that the 0.410 bore shotgun is sometimes found bored as small as 0.409" or as large a 0.422" (over boring for used with plastic wads).

    Grumpytrkr is correct that the 38 Spl. and .357 Magnum have a calculated bore of 9.067 mm.
    When the big changeover from "cap and ball" revolvers to metallic cartridge design, around 1873, physical bore sizes were left basically unchanged. Marketing departments reasoned that it would be easier to sell a new metallic cartridge approximately 0.36" bore revolver if they called it a .38 which implied bigger and therefore more powerful. They did not have this problem with the "cap and ball" 44 because it was really a 0.454" bore size to begin with. For once they told the truth and called it the 45 that it was. .

    Coming forward to 1935, S&W, no doubt, figured that .357 Magnum (0.357" bore) was more impressive than .38 Special Magnum (same 0.357" bore). In more recent times Marlin could have more correctly called the .444 Marlin the .429 Marlin but "stretching the truth" seems to be an almost universal trait of marketing professionals.
  4. Mac0083

    Mac0083 New Member

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    the 40S&W is the same caliber as 10mm.

    And the real measurements on a 45 cal would either be .451 or .452 (I just learned that on this forum) Not .410

    Good Luck!
  5. Grumpytrkr

    Grumpytrkr New Member

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    Now, is it time for a silly question. If the .40 cal is 10MM, why didn't the 10MM catch on????????

    Thanks to everyone who sent info. I'll relay this to Bro-in-law.
  6. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Active Member

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    because of it's stout, mule kick to the groin recoil. :D You could load it down, but then you'd end up with a .40, hence, the 40 was born to stardom. It doesn't kick as much as a 44mag caliber or greater, but it is definetely not a semi-auto for everyone.
  7. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    There was a 19th cent. 10 mm caled the 38-40. It was not as popular as the 44-40 or the 45 Colt (aka Long Colt). The late Jeff Cooper wrote that its was the best "wild horse dropper" of all pistol cartridges he tested as a Federal employee in the early 1950's.

    The 41 Mag. and the 10 mm are good cartridges that just did not meet with much public acceptance. This happened to Ford with the Edsel , and GM with the Aztec (designed by a french woman). The public can be very fickle.

    After a Flordia gunfight called "Black Tuesday" that left several FBI agents dead, the FBI came to realize what the US army learned 90 years earlier. To wit: nominal 38 and 9 mm cartridges are not very effective "man stopers". One of the bad guys took over a dozen hits and returnrd fire.

    The FBI liked the 10 mm, but felt that it recoiled too much for most female agents (not true) and that it over penetrated, increasing the potential for collateral damages. They told S&W that if it would develop a less powerful and shorter 10 mm (40 S&W) that they would buy it. The rest is history.
  8. Mac0083

    Mac0083 New Member

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    I didn't know that. You never know what you will learn next on this forum. Thanks
  9. Grumpytrkr

    Grumpytrkr New Member

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    Yep, found out all the info for Bro-in-law, about the 10 MM, found out that the .45 isn't .410 like I thought. In just a few entries, found out stuff I never knew before.

    I did know the Feds went to .40's, just never knew why.

    Didn't they go with the .357 Sig for a while??????

    Now, if somebody can just answer, why a Yugo?????? :D:D:D:D:D
  10. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    There are those who sincerely believe that smaller diameter, lighter, faster moving pistol bullets are better "man stoppers" than bigger, heavier bullets moving at more moderate velocities. Many of these people are in positions of power within Federal law enforcement agencies. The .357 Sig is used by some Federal agencies including the Secret Service and the Sky Marshals; the last I heard, recently.

    They are prepared to back up their opinions with various claims and data. The bottom line is: "No handgun and cartridge up to the .44 Mag. is a magic wand". For example magazine publisher Larry Flynt took two solid lower torso hits with a .44 Mag. and stayed on his feet. The third shot wiped out his lower spine and dropped him. He is still alive, I believe.
  11. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    You can't, really, use Larry Flint as an example of handgun stopping/killing power or lack thereof. He was shot with a 44 magnum, but it was a Ruger rifle, not a pistol.
  12. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    Alpo,

    You are getting hung up on "individual trees", rather than seeing the forest..

    I believe the bullet from a Ruger 44mag Carbine has substantially more velocity (and thus power) at 100 yards than it does at 15' from the muzzle of a 4" barrel revolver.

    True, the bullet from 100 yards away has settled down gyroscopicly and tends to "drill through" soft tissue with less chance of tumbling than from a revolver at 15' feet. However, the same bullet out of a revolver is not certain to tumble in soft belly tissue.

    The late C. Askins, Jr. bragged that he probably killed the first man with a 44 Mag. revolver in 1956. He said that he used two shots.

    I believe that the Las Vegas area well known private firearms training school recently published the autopsy report (complete with photo and X-rays) of a young man who absorbed about 20 combined .40 S&W and .223 Rem. hits over a two to three minute gunfight with police. He was still resisting when overpowered and handcuffed! No significant drugs were found to be in his system at autopsy.

    No handgun is a magic wand.
  13. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand. I am aware that no pistol round, including the 44 magnum, is a sure one-shot killer/stopper.

    You said (paraphrasing), "The 44 magnum from a pistol is not that great. Look what happened with Larry Flint". All I meant was he is a bad example, as Larry Flint was not shot with a pistol.

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