45lc vs 45 auto rimmed

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by soundguy, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    if I havn't found any by the time I make my next midway order I will order some.

    considering I won't be shooting it much.. It will probably be cheaper for me to find a box of 20 45ar at a show for 20$ and just relaod them. my first loads will already have factory projectiles too.. ;)

    for as much as I would shoot that webley them 20 original brass will probably last a lifetime.

    next question.

    hwat about making 455 brass like for that colt I have. i have 1 box of 20 factory laods ( hornady? ) for it.. options?
  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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  3. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    interesting.

    I have some 45lc that I shoot in my circuit judge... I may have to chuck that in the lathe and cut some to match the 455 i have and see how they look and fit.

    I priced some 455 brass a while back and that made me go buy the hornady pre loaded ammo.. :)

    If I can recycle some of my 45lc that has nicked mouths.. that 'd otherwise toss.. that'd be even better..

    thanks for the schooling alpo.. appreciate it.
  4. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the pics.

    so i see the eley is tapered .004 at the mouth, vs the straightwall 45lc .480 all the way... I take it the resize die will take care of that for me?

    ( I've never re-purposed brass.. yet ) trying to read up and learn a bit..

    thanks

  5. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    so this begs a question.

    could I take 45acp cases. cut them down to 455 size.. and shoot them loaded to 455 specs?

    just curious... or 45ar?


  6. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.
  7. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Yep, it will.

    Matter of fact, 45 Colt was originally tapered. But you can't taper a case with a carbide sizer die, so now all 45 Colt is "straight-walled".
  8. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    interesting thanks!

    so i can cut 45acp and cut and use moonclips.. or 45ar and cut .. and load either to 455 specs. or 45lc....cut .. etc.. OR just reload them few 455 i have.

    neat. too many options!
  9. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    if its shaved for .45 acp and moon clips just load .455 pressure level loads in .45ACP or autorim brass and be done with it. The cylinder should accomodate the extra length just fine.
  10. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    no pressure problems leaving the case long, but with low power charge?. IE.. 45acp loaded to 455 would be an undercharge on the 45acp.. etc ( asme with 45AR )

    sorry for soooo many questions.. just tring to get as many angles on this as i can wrap my head around.

    had the webley and the colt out tonight to look at them.

    45acp and moon clips fit fine in the shaved webley.. and the 455 are fine in the colt.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012


  11. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    It is true that if you load a 455 powder charge (let's say 3.0 of XX) in a 45 ACP case, it will be an undercharge, as the minimum XX load in 45 ACP is 3.6.

    But JLA is not recommending you use 455 data in the ACP case, he's recommending you load to 455 pressures. If 3.0 of XX will push a 230 bullet at 650 in a 455 case, then find a load in ACP brass that will push a 230 bullet at 650. Same bullet at same velocity should equal same pressure.
  12. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    That is correct Alpo, and I have such a load. Sam gave me a light competition load for .45ACP for use in a 1911 with a 12# spring. 3.8 gr W231 and a 200 gr SWC. Bullet velocity is about 700 or so. It is an undercharge according to listed data for the .45ACP, but it is 100% safe and shoots fantastic. IF you so desire to shoot 230 gr bullets at the reduced velocity drop charge to 3.5 gr W231 and you should be there.
  13. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    interesting... I'll need to do more research on the pressure and see what i can find n 45acp.. or.. sounds like i'll just cut down some brass and go straight 455 loads.

    need to figure out a projectile first... see what i have..

    i'll be back with more questions.. :)

    lastly a parting one.

    any issue using a jacketed bullet? and not a lead cast?

    reason i ask.. is looking at 45acp and 45 lc and 455 wedley i see 455 webley listed as .454
    .45acp listed as .452

    and 45 lc as .454 cast lead or .452 jacketed.

    any possibility of a jacketed projectile to fit all 3?
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  14. Shanghai

    Shanghai New Member

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    In my opinion the best way to compare these two calibers is to put them on common ground by using industry standard pressures. The 45 Colt was developed in the latter 1800's and the 45 pistols that inspired the 45AR cartridge toward the end of WWI. The two cartridges have evolved quite a bit in deference to modern firearms and hand loading. Pressures, that were stated in cups(copper crusher units) are now in psi(pressure per square inch). I went back in hand loading manuals to points where the pressures can be compared in cups since older data isn't available in psi. Formulas to convert between the two aren't precise. If you're still awake here goes............... For the following chart I used Speer manual numbers 9 to 13.
    Untitled.jpg

    Note that in manual #13 industry standards for both cartridges were reduced.

    Its not apparent from the chart but its noteworthy to know that in manual #13 all the pressures for the two cartridges were given in cups which facilitated comparison. The takeaway here is be very careful loading either of the cartridges above standard industry levels. The 41 and the 44 Magnum are great cartridges.

    Lengthy but I hope helpful.
    Last edited: May 29, 2015 at 6:13 PM
  15. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    If you want a table to show up correctly, first make it in Word. Then while it is showing, do PRINT SCREEN with the printer turned off. This will save the screen as a picture. Next open Paint, and paste your screenshot into it. Now crop as needed, so all you have is the table. Save it as a jpeg. Then use UPLOAD A FILE.

    Like so.

    untitled.JPG

    :)


    Oh, and the 45AR was invented in the early 20s. Lots of surplus 1917 Colt and Smith and Wesson revolvers, and civilian shooters did not want to mess with half-moon clips. Remington invented the 45 Auto-Rim. Some 25 years before the end of WW2.
    Shanghai likes this.


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