60 gr / 223

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by dhom, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. dhom

    dhom New Member

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    I bought a 223 with a 1-12 twist for my grandson and would like to load Hornady 60gr spire point for deer hunting. Does anybody have a good starting point? [favorite load info or maybe a better bullet suggestion etc.] I have many years reloading experience but, not for this round.
  2. cpttango30

    cpttango30 Guest

    I use 25.0gr of H4895 with Rem brass and a 60gr V-Max in my ar. It produces the groups you see below.

    NOTE: This is an AR specific load. I started here http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

    Remember to start low and work up any load not from a reloading manual.

    [​IMG]
  3. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    dhom:

    The 1 in 12 twist rate in your rifle is a big limiter in which bullet you can use in it. The original M16 was supplied with the 1 in 12 twist and the military found that two slow of a twist even for the 55 grain bullets. The bullet would tumble on occasion. They went to the 1 in 10 for that 55FMJ bullet.

    In your case if you stay with the lighter bullet (not the 60 gr bullet you suggested unless it is unusually short) you will get better accuracy. The actual suggested twist rate is calculated based on the length and diameter of the bullet, not its weight. The Greenhill formula helps with this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_twist

    It is only a guide and there are even more scientific ways and formulas but in general if you stay with the lighter than 55 grain bullets you would be fine in my experience. There are many to choose from as the 223 is a common varmint round.

    A common and good powder to start with is Hodgdon H335. It is a ball powder which flows well through powder measures. See Hodgdon's Load Center on the web for reloading data or get their latest manual.

    Good luck.

    LDBennett
  4. 312shooter

    312shooter Active Member

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    +1 1-12 is typically found in the varmint uppers for AR's designed for the 40-45 grainers.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  5. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    heres a twist rate calculator that uses bullet length, composition, diameter and velocity figures. gives you the exact optimal twist rate requirement for best accuracy.

    http://kwk.us/twist.html

    It is a program that runs the greenhill formula LD mentioned.
  6. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    I have a Weatherby .223 with 1/12 twist. I am in the process of working up some ladder test to determine which load is right for mine. I already did one with 40 grain Sierra Blitzking bullets. I loaded up some and hope to get out this coming Wednesday for the test with a 34 grain Midway Dogtown bullets.

    Here is a link to that first test: http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=102656

    I think you should stick with loading bullets less than the 60 grainers you are planning on and I am not sure that I would use it for deer hunting.
  7. dhom

    dhom New Member

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    Hi,,,,,,I understand that there is better twist rates for stabilizing longer and heavier bullets but, I am working with a 1-12. A quick call to Hornady describing my situation and a tech suggested I use the 60gr spire point. He didn't garuntee great results but, given that situation that is what he would try. I was hoping to gain some incite from someone that has experimented with this. I have also gave some thought to Barnes 53gr TSX. My experience with Barnes shows I can usually get good results going one bullet weight lighter.{performance on game} Not sure but, I think the first AR's were a 1-14 twist. As always thanks for your input!
  8. steve4102

    steve4102 Former Guest

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    Twist rate is not about bullet weight as much as it is about bullet length. With most bullets it is common for a heavier bullet to be longer than a lighter bullet. This is not the case with the Barnes or other all copper bullets. The Barnes 53gr will be longer and have more bearing surface than a cup and core bullet of higher weight. So, your 53gr Barnes may cause more issues than a 60gr cup and core bullet in your 1-12 twist.

    If you already purchased the 60gr Hornady load em and test em. It's the only way. If not I would see if the 60gr Nosler Partition shoots well in your 1-12.
  9. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    I believe the 53 gr TSX needs 11.8 twist at .223 velocity. so youd need to go a smidge lighter for your 12 twist.
  10. dhom

    dhom New Member

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    Thanks guys,,,,,,I should have realized that Barnes bullet would probably be longer. I did not check first, so with the situation at this point I am going to try the Hornady bullet [60gr spire] with 24gr of H4895 and a standard primer and hope for the best. Maybe I am analyzing this to much. Heck I might not even have a problem.
  11. Sandman

    Sandman New Member

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    If the 60gr works, the Nosler Partition is another good round for deer.
  12. Chick

    Chick New Member

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    I see everyone answered everything except your question. Did you ever find a load that worked with the 60 gr spire point, in your 1 in 12" barrel?
  13. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    Welcome to the forum Chick, cpttango pretty much answered the question with the second post, maybe you need to answer him. The other posts were suggestions and conversations about personal experiences.
  14. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Chick:

    He is operating outside the envelope because he is trying to use a bullet too long for the twist rate of his gun. The only way to determine a load that will work is to experiment, but stay within the parameters of reloading manuals for the bullet weight and style of choice.

    It is all about stability of the bullet in flight. If the bullet of choice starts to wobble and/or tumble, which the Greenhill formula may say based on its length for its caliber, then accuracy may go out the window. Only testing at various velocities will prove or disprove the value of using this bullet in this slow twist rate barrel. Without the gun in hand to do testing, there can not be an "answer" to his question.

    LDBennett
  15. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Id wager the OP has not chimed back in with a sucessful load because he did not find one with that bullet/rifling pitch match up. Hes gonna be limited to 50 gr and lighter with a 12 twist.

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