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9MM Cast Feeding Head Space Problem/Pressure Question

3K views 16 replies 8 participants last post by  noylj 
#1 ·
My 9mm cast bullets are creating a feeding problem.If I set the seating die to make them the proper length which is 29.69 or slightly under that the last ripple that holds the lube prevents the bullet from seating properly in the barrel.Resettling the seating die to make it seat below the shell rim,how do I know excess pressure won't result by doing this.Do you think they will be OK!
Here are two of the bullets one below the shell rim and one that is the right length but won't seat properly making me disassemble my gun to get it out.That last ripple settles in the barrel and not the top of the shell.I have had no trouble with the plated bullets only these vented rippled cast ones.
I haven't test fired shorter length cartridges yet below the shell rim yet to see if they feed right.
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#3 ·
I don't know what that 29.63 is, it sure ain't in inches!! The cartridge looks too long to me. The maximum OAL for 9mm is 1.169 inches. And the actual length varies a little bit according to what weight bullet you are using.

Just try to seat the bullet a little deeper!

Also, what is the diameter of the bullets, they should be .355 or .356 Inches!
 
#5 ·
The top bullet is one that is being stuck.Even though it's the right length.I'm going to put the minimum powder in the next batch.IMR calls for 4.9 to 5.4 with a 124 grain bullet.I will make them 4.9 from now on since they have to be deeper not letting that last bullet lube ripple from not showing.I was concerned about to much pressure because the cast ripples have to be below the shell rim to function.I need to test these before I make anymore.
 
#8 ·
I cast and load virtually the same bullet-I seat mine like the shorter of the 2 you show.I use 4.0-4.5 grs of 231.They run flawlessly through my Glock 23(4.5gr)and the same through a suppressed Glock 17(4.0grs).And dump 2ft to my right in a nice pile.
 
#9 ·
The solution to chambering problems is always the same:
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

Per Ramshot:
SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must
be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load.

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel and your gun and your magazine. What worked in a pressure barrel or in my gun has very little to do with what will work in your gun. Load a couple of dummy rounds (no powder and no primer) to the max. COL (OAL) and see if it fits your magazine, feeds in your gun, and chambers in your barrel.
Seat the bullet slightly deeper until you achieve all three of these goals. This is the COL (OAL) for you in your gun with that make of bullet. You are the one in control. Enjoy it. You can make ammunition tailored to your gun and not have to load to the minimum COL (OAL) as do the factories.
Now, the "normal" COL (OAL) for the .380 and a 100gn FMJ bullet is 0.975-0.980. The "normal" COL (OAL) for the 9x19 and a 100gn FMJ is 1.105 to 1.140".
Now, take that barrel out and use as the gage that God intended it to be for you and find out what your gun likes.
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
The solution to chambering problems is always the same:
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

Per Ramshot:
SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH "COL"
It is important to note that the SAAMI "COL" values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must
be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load.

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel and your gun and your magazine. What worked in a pressure barrel or in my gun has very little to do with what will work in your gun. Load a couple of dummy rounds (no powder and no primer) to the max. COL (OAL) and see if it fits your magazine, feeds in your gun, and chambers in your barrel.
Seat the bullet slightly deeper until you achieve all three of these goals. This is the COL (OAL) for you in your gun with that make of bullet. You are the one in control. Enjoy it. You can make ammunition tailored to your gun and not have to load to the minimum COL (OAL) as do the factories.
Now, the "normal" COL (OAL) for the .380 and a 100gn FMJ bullet is 0.975-0.980. The "normal" COL (OAL) for the 9x19 and a 100gn FMJ is 1.105 to 1.140".
Now, take that barrel out and use as the gage that God intended it to be for you and find out what your gun likes.
noylj, how critical is head space in pistol round to accuracy and speed. I load my rifle rounds just off the lands and it makes quite a difference. My load 4.5 gr. HP38, 115gn. round nose O.L. 1.150in. Thanks for the input.
 
#13 ·
i believe you are confusing head space and leade.

your non bottleneck straig / taper rimless / rebated rim auto cases headspace on the case mouth.

rimmed and semi rimmed cartridges headspace off the rim.

belted cartridges headspace off the belt.

your bottlenecked non belted, non rimmed brass headspaces on the shoulder.

There are a few subtle exceptions to this , 1, notably when you get into some 'auto' ammo types ran thru revolvers and such thru the use of retainer ( moon/half moon ) clips.
 
#11 ·
You can load up one or two inert dummy rounds and, starting at the maximum COL that fits the magazine (or cylinder) you can find the range of COL that feeds and chambers without issue.
I find that putting the bullet against the lede/rifling will almost always be the most accurate setting. This minimizes head space and eliminates the run-up to the lede. I always start load development after establishing the COL.
 
#15 ·
The bullet lube holding ripple has been pushed deeper below the case rim and all the bullets now feed properly and don't lodge or jam in the gun.
I figured that was the problem, that is why I said in my first response to seat the bullet a little deeper. I have found that just about every time I have encountered a problem with cast bullets, it turned out that I just needed to seat the bullet a little deeper.
 
#17 ·
Head space: the distance from breech face to that part of the chamber which stops the case's forward movement. Thus, head space is that distance.
I prefer to think of the space when the cartridge is pushed all the way forward as the "head space." That is the head space that you are actually dealing with.
You can load a bullet such that it contacts the rifling--thus, in my reasoning, eliminating "head space." This minimal "head space" will generally be the most accurate.
First, however, is ALWAYS feeding and chambering.
Thus, in general, the longest COL that feeds and chambers 100% will be the best.
I determine this by loading a couple of inert "dummy" rounds at the start of loading a new bullet to establish the COL.
 
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