Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by DEADEYE1964, Jan 13, 2009.

  1. DEADEYE1964

    DEADEYE1964 New Member

    Nov 22, 2008
    Dallas, Tx
    I have a question on a gun my friend just aquired. He bough a Taurus millinium model 111 9mm para ( not the pro model). I went to Taurus' site but could not find the answer. It does not say anything in his manual about luger or parabellum ammo for the gun, it just says not to use more than a 124 grain ammo in it. Will 9mm luger ammo work in this gun ? What are the advantages and disadvantages for both. No where in the manual says parabellum, but the gun is stamped millinium 9mm para.

    Thank you,
  2. 22WRF

    22WRF Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2004
    One in the same

  3. pawn

    pawn Active Member

    Jan 31, 2007
    Crossville, TN
    9mm Luger = 9mm Parabellum = 9x19
  4. Vladimir

    Vladimir New Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Issaquah WA
    The only 9mm you gotta watch out for AS FAR AS I KNOW is 9mm Makarov which is 9x18 instead of 9x19.
  5. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2007
    .380 ACP is sometimes listed at 9x17 or 9mm short. You also want to avoid these.

    But the answers above are correct; 9mm luger and 9mm parabellum are the same thing.
  6. poser_pilot

    poser_pilot New Member

    Jan 13, 2009
    There is also the 9mm Largo, or 9x23. I dont think Ive ever seen a gun chambered for it that wasnt made by Star or Astra, although there probably are others.

    Im sure there are other little oddball cartridges out there in addition to all the ones that have been mentioned here as well.
  7. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

    Also the 9x18 mm has a larger diameter than the 9x19.

    9x18 = .357 dia.
    9x19 = .355 dia,

    Then again I could be mistaken or misinformed on this.

    But for sure the 9mm Luger and the 9mm Parabellum are the same 9x19 mm
  8. 22WRF

    22WRF Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2004
    9mm Largo

    Last edited: Jan 13, 2009
  9. muddober

    muddober Active Member

    Sep 19, 2008
    Carson City Nevada
    As stated herein many times the 9mm Luger and Parabellum (9x19) are one in the same. I have seen the cartridge referred too in print as the 9mm Parabellum Luger. The word Parabellum in Latin means "for war".

    The 9MM Largo (9x23)case appears to be nothing more or less than a rimless 38 Super. I load for a friend of mine who owns a Star in 9MM Largo and I use my 38 Super Comp brass which is also rimless and a bit thicker than normal 38 Super brass. I use a 9mm Luger/Parabellum load of 6 grains of Unique and 115 grain Hornady XTP for his gun and it works well.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2009
  10. poser_pilot

    poser_pilot New Member

    Jan 13, 2009
    Yeah, I have heard that 9x23 and 38 Super are very very close to the same thing, and its possible to shoot them out of the same gun, although not recommended.

    How is your friend's Star? I recall seeing them in Shotgun News for cheap, are they worth picking up?
  11. Ursus

    Ursus Active Member

    There are several cartridges with the 9mm designation: 9 mm Ultra, 9 mm Mars, 9 mm Glisenti, 9 mm Bergman-Bayard...to name a those that easily comes to mind. Those I just mentioned are different between them, and none of them is equal to the 9 mm Luger (Para, 9x19)
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  12. muddober

    muddober Active Member

    Sep 19, 2008
    Carson City Nevada
    I don't want anyone to be misled about what I wrote concerning me using 38Super comp brass for my friends 9 mm Largo. I used the brass but I did not load it to 38 Super comp pressures or even 38 Super pressures as it would I am sure not be healthy for the gun or the person shooting it. The load I used is as I said a 9mm Luger loading of 6 grains of Unique behind a 115 grain bullet that according to my book drives the bullet from the smaller 9mm case at about 1200 fps. My guess is that this load in the larger case would mean that it would run between 1050 to 1100 fps. I shoot a 130 grainer out of my Super Comp gun at 1470 fps which is deep into 357 mag territory. My point being is that you don't want to even get factory 38 Super ammo anywhere close to a 9mm Largo pistol.

    The best way to answer your question about my opinion of my friends gun is that just yesterday I gave him a 9mm Daewoo as a gift and told him to shelve his gun and just keep it as one of the war relics his Dad brought home from WWII. By the way the Daewoo in my opinion is hard to beat for the money. I have one in 40 S&W and it like the 9mm it has never missed a beat.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  13. OK, So what are the origins of the reference for 9mm Parabellum & 9mm Luger? I assume the 9mm Luger refers to the German pistol. Didn't know the Latins made the Parabellum...:confused: :)

    But seriously, what are the origins?
  14. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

    Bruce,the Latins did not design the 9mm Parabellum. They stole the design from the Greeks during the Roman Conquests during the First Century BC.
  15. muddober

    muddober Active Member

    Sep 19, 2008
    Carson City Nevada
    Bruce: jacksonco is pulling your leg a bit. The Latin word "for war" Parabellum has been around for centuries. The 9MM first came about in the 20th century and was designed specifically for the German Luger pistol, hence the name 9mm Luger. How and why the word Parabellum became attached the the gun and caliber I would have to guess was like a descriptive nick name such as "tactical", "delta", "elite" "combat" "special" etc.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ammo & Reloading Forum 9mm Luger or Parabellum May 7, 2007
The Ammo & Reloading Forum 9mm Luger dies? Mar 23, 2016
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Question reguarding 9mm and 9mm Luger Nov 8, 2015
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Fiocchi Ammunition 9mm Luger 92 Grain Expansion Mono-Block Jan 25, 2015
The Ammo & Reloading Forum beginner's bullet questions 9mm Luger Mar 9, 2014