9mm recipe. safe or not safe?

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by socalfamous87, May 4, 2012.

  1. socalfamous87

    socalfamous87 New Member

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    winchester 231 4.2 gr. with a 124 gr/rn fmj with the OAL 1.075?
  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Not according to Speer #12.

    4.0 minimum to 4.5 maximum with a 124 grain bullet, with an OAL of 1.135".

    Your load is 60/1000 too short. I'd seat the bullet out more, if it was me.
  3. socalfamous87

    socalfamous87 New Member

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    It was only 50 rounds. I still have to make 500 more. Would you say those are safe to fire? Or would you pull the bullets out and start over?
  4. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    I'd get my handy-dandy inertia puller and pull 'em.

    "Only 50" don't make it with me. Maybe seating them that short would not hurt anything. Then again, maybe seating them that .060 too deep has raised pressures from normal 30,000 psi to 50,000 or 60,000 psi, and the first shot blows up my gun. And my hand.

    I don't know what seating 'em too deep did.

    So, I'd pull 'em.
  5. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Active Member

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    If you just use the inertia puller to pull them partially out and then reseat them properly would that be ok? Just wondering for future
  6. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    Dude, we are talking ammo here not cookies. Pull'm and do it right. What is the value of those 50 rounds? $10.00 at the most. Don't take chances. That is my plinking 9mm load also. 124gr Remington of Winchester FMJ, 4.2gr. Win.231, COL 1.13.
  7. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Active Member

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    You mean you can't eat them. So we are talking about pressing in a bullet. Why couldn't you slightly pull it out? Your not messing with the powder. Your just pulling it out slightly. I'm not trying to be smart here. I'm just curious. I havn't had this problem before, but it would be something I would try. Why wouldn't it work?
  8. JohnTheCalifornian

    JohnTheCalifornian Member

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    I have used an inertia puller to lengthen the OAL I made too short BEFORE I had crimped the bullet into place. Doing that wont hurt them a bit.

    FWIW: I believe Todd was referring to the original post, not your question.

    According to Lyman 49th Edition;
    125 gn Jacketed HP
    Win 231
    Start - 3.9 gns, Max - 4.4 gns
    OAL= 1.075"

    Although this is not the exact bullet, it's close. The load you are using is similar to this and you are near the max charge. Pull those bullets and start with the minimum charge.
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  9. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    As JohntheCalifornian said, I have used the puller to "bump" 'em a little longer, if I noticed I made 'em too short. Problem is, it is difficult to have the right touch.

    Bump it, measure it, still a little short, bump it, measure it, still a little short, bump it, measure it, good, now it's too long, can reseat it to the right.

    Next.

    Bump it, measure it, still a little short, bump it, measure it, still a little short, bump it, damn, too hard, bullet came all the way out.

    For a small amount, it's probably easier to just go ahead and pull 'em and start over, instead of doing the "hit, measure, hit again, measure again" thing. That gets old.
  10. 76Highboy

    76Highboy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I always say that if you have to question what you did, you should redo it. Once you pull the trigger you can't take it back.
  11. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    Sure I have tried the bump it a bit and measure and bump and measure when I had a single cartridge to mess with but it is time consuming and sure as shooting you are going to whack it one time too many and pull the bullet in the process. With 50 to do that would take for ever. I bet you will save time in the long run to just pull them all and start over. I pulled the bullets on a box of .357 mag. reloads someone gave me this Spring because I didn't nor did he know how they were loaded. Didn't really take all that long to unload and then reload and now I can shoot them with out any worries.
  12. gun-nut

    gun-nut Member

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    I will not despute anything that is said here, but yes follow the book till you get to know more of what you are doing, the bullet should be pulled out and reseated , but i have found out that some of the min charges will work in some guns and others it will not. For example i did some 45's for my older 1911 using Unique with a 250gr RN. Then went shooting with a friend he ran out of ammo so he asked to shoot a few of mine. (He now reloads) I said shure.( Not thinking that they were my reloads) He tried a few in his XD. The bullets did go down range (no squibs) but just had no azz to run the slide. Just something that i have found out over the years of reloading. So i start just about .5 of a gr. higher then the min starting charge, (books vary) but i do watch the seating depth closely. Just my .02.
  13. 76Highboy

    76Highboy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    The only problem I see with trying to pull the bullet part way out of the case and then reseat it is if the case is crimped and you try to seat the bullet to the C.O.L. you may bulge the side of the case and that is not good.
  14. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    All of my reloading reference books are packed away and unavailable.

    Alpo gives good SAFE advice. Pull the bullets! Re-size the cases. re-charge with propellant and re-seat to the correct OAL. I would opine that bullets overseated by 0.060" are not safe with a near max charge of 231.

    To the best of my memory, about 20 to 25 years ago, when the 9x19 mm was becoming popular, Speer published a warning (about reloading it) that basically said that if the bullet on a 32000 psi load (of a propellant like 231, Bullseye, or other fast pistol powder) became over-seated by 0.100"; THE BREECH PRESSURE WOULD SKYROCKET TO OVER 70,000 psi. Pistol pressures above 60K likely rupture cases (that are not fully supported) and damage things and people. I have personally seen both happen!

    AS FREE INFO: Semi-auto bullets have to be seated with enough neck tension so that they are not likely to be seated deeper during the recoil and re-loading stroke of the pistol"s slide. Minimum safe numbers in English pounds are 50 lbs pressure for .45 & 40 (10mm) caliber ammo; and 35 lbs. pressure for .38 and 9 mm caliber ammo. Reloaded ammo should be scale (like a digital bathroom scale) tested to insure that your bullets do not move deeper under these loads. If the do your neck tension is not sufficient to be safe in a semi-auto pistol.
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  15. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    Post Deleted
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  16. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Active Member

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    All good to know. Sorry Todd, when you started with Dude, I ASS U MEd you were refering to me. Totally get that it would be quicker to pull them all, I just didn't get why bumping them out would be unsafe. Providing they fit in a case gauge I would totally try it. Maybe not now. Didn't think about bulging the case. Like I said I havn't over seated yet, but I'm sure I will at some point. So now I know. Thanks
  17. steve4102

    steve4102 Former Guest

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    I'm not seeing the problem here.:confused:
    According to Hodgdon the Start charge for 125gr Sierra FMJ RN is 4.4gr with an OAL of 1.090. The OP's OAL is only .015 shorter than Hodgdon data and he is also .2gr UNDER Min.

    According to Sierra #5 the Start charge for their 125gr FMJ RN is 3.9gr with an OAL of 1.090. They also list a Max charge of 5.1gr for this combo. The OP's 4.2gr is just above Start according to Sierra Data and OAL is only .015 shorter.


    The problem I do see is the OP loaded 50 rounds before testing them for function, accuracy and most of all safety.
  18. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    Just funning with you. Any of us that have gotten into reloading have made mistakes and goofed up. But best practice is to undo it and start over. All we are wasting is a little time. Reloading can be fun but always take the safe route.
  19. steve4102

    steve4102 Former Guest

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    I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's load didn't completely cycle the action it's so weak.
  20. LDJ

    LDJ Member

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    Last edited: May 11, 2012
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