Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by gazzmann, Sep 7, 2009.
Is 9X19 the same as 9mm ammo?
Basically - yes.
Gazz, the most common and popular 9mm' round in the U. S is the 9x19. This round was originally the 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger. Rarely, it is referred to as 9mm NATO.
There all other 9mm bullet diameter rounds as well, including a dimensionally identical round from between WW I and WW II called the 9mm Glisenti. It was identical except for pressure levels; it was loaded far lighter than the Luger round.
Europe has a number of 9s. 9mm Largo, 9mm Styer, 9mm Mauser, and several others. They're all different and most of them are rather rare in the U. S.
If that sounds odd, check a copy of Cartridges of the World and count how many different '.38' rounds have been marketed in the U. S.
9 X 19 is the same as 9mm Luger or Parabellum. There are a good number of 9mm cartridges, that's sort of like asking if .30-06 is the same as .30 caliber. There's also 9mm Largo, 9mm Makarov(9mm x 18), 9mm Kurz, 9mm Steyr, 9mm Mauser, 9mm x 17, and 9mm Browning Short. I'm sure I probably left one or two off this list.
In the USA there has never been any government mandated standardization relative to commercial firearms or their ammunition. Manufacturers called their products whatever they wanted. Often their descriptive caliber names were not accurate. In the 20th Century, a voluntary industry association (SAAMI) came to be; but there are no rigid rules for naming calibers.
In Europe there have long been laws regulating firearms and ammo. To promote standardization and trade the Europeans have their firearms governing body (CIP). Modern European calibers are designated by by the nominal bullet diameter and the case length in millimeters. Sometimes there will be a suffix, as when two non interchangeable cartridges have the same dimensions.
Okay, everybody, hands in the air. This thread is being HIJACKED!!!!!
On first glance, you might think that the European method would make more sense, but it can be just as confusing.
Take 7x57. 7mm bullet in a case 57mm long. Simple. We know it as the 7mm Mauser. They also have a 7x57R. Same round, except it is in a rimmed case, instead of rimless. Used, mostly, in single shots and double rifles.
They have the 8x57 and the 8x57R. Once again, the same round, except that one has a rim on it and the other doesn't.
So, how about the 7.62x51 and the 7.62x51R? Same round, right? Just like the others? Only difference is the rim? WRONG!! 7.62x51 is 308 Winchester. 7.62x51R is 30/30 Winchester. Those two rounds aren't even close. Not in power. Not in usage. Not in bullet types used. Nothing. Except for one thing. Length.
In this country we have the 380, also known as the 380 ACP. Nice little round, used in pocket pistols. In Europe they call it the 9x17mm. Except where they call it the 9mm Kurz. Or the 9mm Corto. Or the 9-34. Or the 9mm Browning. Or the 9mm Browning Short. All the same thing. Them-there Europeans is just as confuddled as we'uns.
As usual, Alpo makes good points.
The idea of the current metric cartridge ID system is that each cartridge as a unique description using metric measurements and suffixes where necessary, so that the correct ammo gets in the correct firearm.
The world's military organizations seem to have embraced this concept.
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
Not only did I get my answer but a very educational and enlightening history lesson!
Separate names with a comma.