A bit of firearms trivia...

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member

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    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2918
    (10/26/02 8:52:04 am)
    Reply A bit of firearms trivia....
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    1) What was the: "Automatic Pistol, Caliber .30, Model of 1918"

    Hint: It was American.

    2) What was the: "Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, Model of 1917"

    Hint: American also.

    3) Why was the .45 caliber Luger (PO not recommended during the U.S. Automatic Pistol trials in 1906-07.

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5081
    (10/27/02 1:57:47 pm)
    Reply
    Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    #3 I just saw on tv last week. Can't remember though.



    jeeper1
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 365
    (10/28/02 1:42:36 am)
    Reply Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    #3 probably because luger wouldn't license it to be made in america and the US didn't want to be dependent on a foreign country for their handguns. And possibly the cost.
    Just a guess.

    pitsitter
    Member
    Posts: 15
    (10/28/02 5:40:18 am)
    Reply Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    #1 is the pedersen (sp) device, for the springfield rifle.

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2926
    (10/28/02 8:07:19 am)
    Reply Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    BOING! Give that man a cigar! Nice goin' Pitsitter! The Pederson Device converted the bolt-action '30 Springfield into a semi-auto. It fired a .30 caliber pistol-type cartridge (similar to the later M1 carbine cartridge). The nominclature "Automatic Pistol, Caliber .30, Model of 1918" was used to confuse the Germans.

    Jeeper......close, but no cigar.

    jimejones
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 61
    (10/28/02 11:17:00 am)
    Reply Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    Was no. 2 a model that Savage submitted to military trials? One reason that the Browning designed Colt won over the Luger was the free interchangability of parts between different Colts. The Luger had tighter tolerences, and sometimes needed a little fitting to make the parts work right. Sometimes I regret selling my Luger. It had style and elegance. I'll never give up my Colt autos. They always work.

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2927
    (10/28/02 5:29:19 pm)
    Reply Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    Jimejones.....nope. The Colt and Savage were the two finalists in the March, 1911 trials. The Colt won and was accepted as the "Automatic Pistol, Calibre .45, Model of 1911". The Savage lost and was given no designator.

    On the Luger.....nope.

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5099
    (10/28/02 9:20:54 pm)
    Reply
    Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    Just between you and me I wish the Savage would have won


    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2934
    (10/29/02 9:07:49 am)
    Reply Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    Piggy.....Savage was a small firm at the time and didn't really have the resources to compete.

    The Savage was simpler than the Colt (fewer pieces), but they were unable to make the many changes the military demanded between the tests. Colt was able to redesign their pistol and make new prototypes quickly. Savage wasn't.

    During the final 1911 test, the Colt went 6,000 rounds without failure. The Savage had bunches of problems.

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5109
    (10/29/02 9:51:00 am)
    Reply
    Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    I know but I still have always like Savage and Stevens.


    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2943
    (11/1/02 8:22:34 am)
    Reply Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    Well Piggy.....there are (or there WERE) about 200 of those Savage .45s out there.

    In 1907 the Government contracted with both Savage and Colt for 200 pistols each to be issued to troops in the field for testing and comment. After the test period (about a year), the pistols were turned back in to Army Ordnance, who returned them to the manufacturers. I don't know what Colt did with theirs, but Savage refurbished theirs and sold them commercially.

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3720
    (11/19/02 9:58:20 pm)
    Reply Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    All I knew was the Pederson Device, but I did a paper in college that I included that in there and if I remember right I THINK the .30 Pederson was really closer to a .32ACP round.

    It's a shame that even though there are still a lot of 03s out there with the original, Pederson alterations to the reciever, the Government ordered all like 65,000 of the devices destroyed, and there are like only one or two in existence.

    It replaced the bolt assembly, had like a 3" barrel that fit into the chamber of the 03, and a 15 round magazine that protruded out of (I think) the left side of the reciever at like a 45* angle.

    It worked well in tests too, but failed with troops in the field...it supposed took a "trained" soldier less than 20 seconds to convert the 03, but in reality, with all the extra pieces and mags and rounds not to mention the original bolt floating around in packs and pockets, or getting dropped in the mud, it was a LOUSY idea in practice, it would have been even worse under fire, or gas attack, or at night in bad weather, chances are the doughboy would have ended up with a fouled up weapon capable of firing NOTHING just when he needed it.

    The idea was to use the rifle normally in defense, but to convert it to SA for the attack across no-mans land, giving the soldier a good "assault weapon."

    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3048
    (11/20/02 9:42:30 am)
    Reply Re: A bit of firearms trivia....
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    OK, Polish......I wanted to give you a chance to get in here.

    The Answers:

    1) What was the: "Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, Model of 1917"?

    It was a .45 pistol, a very pretty piece designed by John D. Pederson and built by Remington for the U.S. Navy. It was accepted by the Navy, but just before the contract was signed, the U.S. entered WWI. At that point, the Gov't felt all services should be using only one pistol design, so the contract was never signed. Instead, Remington was given a contract to build the M1911.

    3) Why was the .45 caliber Luger not recommended during the U.S. Automatic Pistol trials in 1906-07?

    It wouldn't function reliably with the U.S. Government supplied ammo for the test. It worked fine with some German made .45 ACP, but the propellant for that wasn't readily available in the U.S.



    yz250fpilot
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (2/18/03 3:39:46 pm)
    Reply pederson device
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    I just had a pederson device with no clip in my hand. It's in mint condition. Anyone interested in purchasing it?

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3762
    (2/18/03 6:03:40 pm)
    Reply Re: pederson device
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    Hi yz250fpilot....Welcome to TFF....and especially welcome to the HistoryNuts Forum.

    I'd love to have it....but I don't care to take out a second mortgage on my house right now.

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1540
    (2/19/03 10:40:26 am)
    Reply
    Re: pederson device
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    What kind of $$$ are you looking too get for your Pederson Device?






    yz250fpilot
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (2/19/03 11:19:50 am)
    Reply pederson device
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    don't know...just thought I'd make this post with the discussion I saw on the Pederson Device.
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