I'm pretty new to reloading. I'm only doing .223. I've probably loaded about 500-600 rounds and have shot about half that many. I'm loving it. Totally. It's a ball of a hobby.
I have one reloading manual - Speer. I've used H335, W748 and BL-C(2) powders. For all of these powders the Speer manual calls for magnum primers, which is what I've used. And all my loads so far have been 55gr bullets. I believe I read that magnum primers are often recommended for ball powders because they don't ignite as easily as extruded powders. I have no idea if that is true.
A few months ago I bought some Hornady 53gr Match bullets. I didn't think much about it when I bought them. But when I got home and flipped open my Speer manual they had no load data for 53gr bullets. Ruh roh.
So I start searching around and learn (I think here) to never trust load data that has been typed in by someone. I wouldn't have thought of that myself - but it makes complete sense and I'm on board. So I've been considering getting another manual, assuming Hornady would have load data for this bullet, since it's their bullet.
However I happen to find online a *photo* of a .223 pg out of the Hornady manual for this bullet. Their load info for these powders don't call for a magnum primer, so I presume it is recommending a normal primer. I also presume that just using a magnum primer for that load would be a stupid idea - since I also think I've read magnum primers increase pressure.
So - finally - my questions:
* Is it that unusual that one manual would say magnum primer and another would not - for the same powder?
* Is it also safe to assume I shouldn't use a magnum primer unless the load specifically calls for it?
Not unusual. That's why most folks recommend multiple manuals. They don't all say the same thing.
Now, I've never used two of those powder, but I've shot a lot of 748, back when Winchester made their own powder, and I've never used a magnum primer. Never used a magnum rifle primer, period, and I've put a bunch of ball downrange.
If the load does not call for a magnum primer, I suggest not using one.
There are people, on this and on other boards, that said that during the primer shortage they used magnum and standard primers interchangeably, because
"you use what you can find", but I won't do that. Follow the book.
Always follow the manual. If it says regular primer, that's what you use.
It's very common for different manuals to have different recipes. Each one publishes the data that they found to be safe, but they each worked independently, so they will have some variations.
One thing that you can do is to use data for slightly heavier bullet. Data for 55 grain bullets will be safe to use with 53 grain bullets of similar construction. Reducing the bullet weight will slightly reduce the pressure, so your velocities may be lower, but you won't be doing anything dangerous.
No, it's not unusual to find different recommendations in different books. And you're correct in assuming that there's no reason to use a magnum primer if the book doesn't specifically call for it. I load a lot of different calibers, and I've never had a reason to buy a magnum primer. If I couldn't find anything else on the shelf, I wouldn't hesitate to use them, but I've never found a reason to seek them out specifically. In my experience, not only as a reloader but as a childhood explosives maker, there is absolutely no evidence that ball powders require hotter primers to ignite them than do extruded powders. If anything, all evidence points in the opposite direction.
As a rule of thumb, since you have 53 gr bullets, using data for 55 gr bullets will generally be safe, but using data for lighter bullets might get you in trouble. Be safe, and don't go there. The best suggestion I can give you is to go out and get many more manuals. I have five, and they all disagree, so I plan to get more, and continue to use my growing judgement. Welcome to our addiction, by the way; it's a great hobby.
For your second and third manuals, I would pick up Hornady 9th and the Lyman 49th. Both of these have excellent instruction and that instruction alone is worth the price IMO.
I have not loaded a ton of .223 (just under 2000), and I have only used small rifle primers with 55 and 60 gn bullets and IMR 4198, H355, and CFE223 powders. I have followed the Hornady recipes exactly but I have experiment with a tad longer COLs.
They list many powders for the 53 grain bullets with H335. They recommend Large Rifle primers. Some who hunt in cold country choose Magnum primers as cold reduces the effects of primers. It is probably old news that modern ball powders do not necessarily require magnum powders. When using manual data use what they used for maximum safety. Always start at the low end and work up from there watching for signs of excessive pressure and NEVER exceed the listed max loads.
I have about a dozen manuals collected through the years. I typically use the latest ones and compare loads between them. They usually differ by a small amount. Follow the one whose components most closely match your components.
LD, no matter how hard you push, I don't think you will ever get a Large Rifle Primer to seat in a piece of .223 brass. I know it is a typo!
I am going to go a slightly different direction. I say that the magnum primers are OK with any powder you choose as long as you start at the minimum load and watch for signs of over pressure as you work up your load. We have a member (JLA) who had said for years that the magnum primers is all he has ever used in .223. The last time I ordered SRP, I ordered the magnum primers. When I run out of the regular ones, I look forward to working up new loads using the magnum ones.
I only use magnum primers when the manual states to use them. I mistakenly used some large rifle primers in .300 Weatherby loading with Retumbo powder when the book called for magnums. They fired just fine. That being said, I try to stick to data from the manual.
As others have said, you can use the 55gr loads that you've already worked up with the 53gr bullets and the Hornady manual is worth buying when you get a chance.
I've been loading 5.56 for my AR using BL-C2 and CCI #41 primers. That's a magnum level primer which none of my manuals calls for. It's like any other substitution that will tend to raise pressure, start low and work up the load. In your case you've already got a load worked up with magnum primers so stick with it if you like, but if you develop a new load use whatever primer that book called for unless using a #41 as I have done.
One thing to keep in mind is, primers aren't all created equal. There are standard primers that are hotter than some magnum primers. Some brands of magnum primers are hotter than other brands of magnum primers. I personally use CCI magnum primers in every cartridge I load. As everyone said start low and work up.
I'd really like to find a way to use the mag primers with these 53gr bullets - mostly from the standpoint of standardizing on components as much as possible.
I'm hearing two approaches: Use only published loads. Or alternatively start with a min load for non mag primer but use a mag primer. Work up and watch for pressure issues.
The latter approach seems reasonable, but if folks think that is "reckless" please chime in with additional perspectives.
I'd really like to find a way to use the mag primers with these 53gr bullets - mostly from the standpoint of standardizing on components as much as possible.
You'll like Winchester large pistol primers, they're sold for use in magnum and standard loads alike.
My suggestion is to load those 53gr bullets the same as you would your 55gr bullets with all of the same components but drop to a starting powder charge then work up again to what you use now.
If you look around you'll see product reviews at MidwayUSA on small rifle magnum primers and most indicate they are using it in .223. And if you dig around more you'll find some experimentation has been done. One that I found used a 16" AR-15 with the same load using Federal Standard Small Rifle Primers and CCI Magnum Small Rifle Primers. He found that magnum primers resulted in 50 FPS lower velocity, the opposite of what he expected based on similar tests with large pistol primers. It's also worth noting that he had two slam fires with Federal primers - the softest cup on the market.
CCI are the only makers of small rifle magnum primers. So of course the Speer manual differentiates between the two types of CCI primers else why would they make them? Internet rumor says that the whole ball powder issue was with standard CCI primers so they came out with the magnum level primers to resolve it. Your Speer manual appears to support that theory even though it seems that modern ball powders are not a problem. If you want to standardize small rifle primers then stick with CCI magnums or switch to Winchester or Remington and leave behind this small rifle magnum confusion.
Opps.....Small rifle primers (standard not magnum) is what I use. Sorry about that. Several hours after making that post I realized I had made the mistake and I came back her just now to correct it. But it appears gdmoody is much smarter than me and mentioned it before I made the change.
Several years ago one of the magazines did a photo comparison of how energetic the different brands of equivalent primers were. In most case the Winchester primers were the most energetic.
It is often the case that loads developed with standard primers (with other than very slow rifle powders) exhibit better accuracy than those developed with magnum primers when both are the best found recipes from the development processes. That is not always the case but it is more often than not.
I own and use the following manuals: Hornady 9th, Lyman 49th, Nosler 7th, Alliant 2014, Hodgdon 2014 and several online manuals and have never seen or used magnum primers for any of my 223 loads and I have used all of the powders you mentioned and usually load 55g FMJ bullets. I have however used the CCI #41 primers for my 5.56mm loads when using 5.56 brass and according to several published primer comparison charts are considered to be magnum primers.
Did you double check to see if the Speer manual isn't calling out the magnum primers for a 5.56mm load instead of the 223?
to the op. As most have said, you can safely use data for a projectile a few grains higher than yours, and it will lower pressure. if you had used data for a lighter projectile, pressure goes up, so you'd deffinately have to stay at the shallow end of the pool.
as for primer substitution. I use what the manual reccomends, however as others have mentioned. when stuff was hard to find, i have loaded magnums in standard place, but i started over my loads at minimum and worked up, as you should do when you change out a component anyway.
Sometimes loading ammo for very cold climates you will WANT to go with a mag primer.. etc..
CCI #41 primers are reduced sensitivity military primers especially designed to avoid slam fires in semi-auto and full auto guns. The rest of their specs are the same as Magnum primers. A slam fire is when the firing pin in the military gun, that does not have a retraction spring, can extend beyond the breech face of the bolt and cause the gun to fire as the bolt closes. I have rarely seen any posts here of people having slam fires when using 223 ammo in an AR. 5.56 ammo is more powerful and should only be used in guns marked for it but those guns marked as 5.56 can shoot either 223 or 5.56. Maybe 5.56 ammo needs CCI#41 primers???? I don't know.
I suppose using CCI #41 primers in AR ammo is a precaution but I suspect few people do (they are hard to find). If it were a real problem we'd be hearing about it here for sure. It goes without saying that 223 with CCI#41 primers in a bolt gun is a total waste as the bolt is never closed with enough energy to cause a slam fire if the gun is in good mechanical condition.
Thanks so much for all the info in this thread. I greatly appreciate it!
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