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Accuracy of hand loads versus factory loads

3K views 18 replies 12 participants last post by  gandog56 
#1 ·
I am reloading 45 ACP for my 1911 and now for my 45 Carbine. I have dialed in the carbine scope using a laser bore sight. So off to the range only to find that of about 50 hand loads only maybe 5 hit the target. Frustrated I tried some factory loads and all rounds hit the mark without touching any alignment settings.
Hand loads: 230 grain RN WW (hand cast, sized and lubricated) with 5.5 grains of AutoComp
Factory loads: 230 grin RN FMJ PMC Bronze
Was thinking of loading using 230 grain RN FMJ bullets to see if there was any improvement.
AutoComp seems to be smokey. The Accurate No. 2 I have doesn't seem to burn fully leaving little powder balls in the chamber. Everything I read suggests Unique, Bullseye or W231 as "the best".
Any suggestions to solve this so I am not obligated to use only factory loads in the carbine?
 
#2 ·
You say you are shooting reloaded ammo, but you didn't say what diameter bullet you were using. The diameter of the bullet will make a difference in YOUR gun. To small, and you won't get good contact with the rifling, to large, and they tend to deform. You may need to slug that barrel to find out just exactly what size it is.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Any and all factory loads can be duplicated using "hand loads".
The problem is finding the right load for your rifle or pistol.
It is also not fair to compare your hand cast to the factory FMJ. If you are doing a comparison between your loads and factory, you should try to use the same projectile and velocity as factory ammo.(look at the velocity and bullet weight in your reloading manual for something comparable)

I personally use Bullseye powder.

As carver mentioned, if you are using hand cast you will have to play a round a bit to get the right size of hand cast. Slugging the barrel is probably the best place to start.
It may seem like a pain in the a$$ but it is well worth the time and effort. In the long run it can also save you a lot of money depending on how much you shoot.
 
#5 ·
I reload for my Mosin Nagants. I find that they just outshoot Czech silvertip light ball, but no other surplus ammo came close to my reloads. Only problem was, the surplus Czech was almost as cheap as my reloads. The good news is the reloads were more accurate, and didn't have the lacquered case and corrosive primer crud. Much easier to clean the gun after.

Basically I reload every caliber I own except .22 LR.
 
#6 ·
dbl12 - I agree whole-heartedly that you are using a wildly unfair comparison. You compare your cast bullets to factory jacketed bullets, you did not mention whether you took the time to 'work-up' your loads, you did not mention whether or not you slugged the bores of your gun (s).

It also sounds as if maybe you have only used ONE powder. (And to ME that one is a new gee-whiz brand). All of this is like putting after shave in a Corvette and you test driving it. Of course your Volkswagon Beetle running high octane gas is going to out-perform it.

If you are serious about finding a top-notch load, slug the barrel, or at least use a good quality store bought jacketed bullet. Then try a proven propellant like 231, Bullseye or Unique. THEN work up a load by loading up a batch of at least 50 rounds - 10 each being from starting load and skipping 2 tenths of a grain working toward the upper end of the scale.

Label your rounds so you know which are which. Fire these at a fixed paper target carefully and in order. Keep a record of how the rounds function and the size of each 5 shot group. Remember that there is no PERFECT round for ALL pistols and carbines. The best you can hope for is a load that works well in both.

There are other ways of doing this, but as a time saver, if I were you, this is what I'd do. Good luck!
 
#8 ·
If it were me, I would try another method. Instead of going to the store seeking some "popular powder", I would look in a few reloading manuals under 45 cal and the weight and type of your bullets and see what the tables call for! When I started loading for my 45 1911, I poured through my Lymans, Nosler, Hornady, Hodgdon and Alliant load manuals and using a 230 grain copper plated bullet, found at least a dozen compatible powders to select from. I only have six handgun powders so started looking for load data using those powders. I started my experimenting by loading five rounds of each powder using 90% of the maximum powder and shooting through a chronograph to record the velocities. Now I am loading five more of each powder going up a few tenths of a grain and will continue until I can start weeding out the powders that are not producing the velocities I am looking for. Once I decide on a particular powder I will then start varying the loads to see which is the most accurate. Right or wrong, it's a start....... and I'm having fun doing it!

Just a thought.
 
#9 ·
You cast your own? Did you weight them to be sure there is not a big variation in weights due to air bubbles or ???. Getting the bullet sized right is super important and I would guess that might be the problem. But 0.451 inches is what Lyman recommends. Slugging your barrels may solve the problem to determine exactly what size the bullet should be for your particular guns.

I don't like to use lead bullets in my 45ACP guns as lead builds up just in front of the chamber and it requires a pick to get it out. I either shoot Rainier Plated Bullets or bulk packaged Winchester or Remington jacketed bullets.

There are those here who love to cast. I've been there, done that, and will not cast my own bullet anymore.

There are lots of choice when it comes to powders but for my many different handgun calibers I normally use Winchester 231 or the Hodgdon labeled version, HP38.

LDBennett
 
#10 ·
Everything has been pretty much covered but all the other comments. Except maybe the smokey powder, which probably ain't the AutoComp but most likely the lube on your bullets. BTW, none of the manuals I looked at even show AutoComp in the listings for any weight .45 ACP.

Also, you said that only 5 hit the target, do you mean that only five were in the "black" or there were only five that hit the bullseye, or everything BUT those five were hitting dirt in front of the stand???
 
#11 ·
One of the rare and few times that I disagree with LD on anything. I shoot the Lyman 210 grain cast bullet - and also mostly 230 grain FMJs - thru my trusty-rusty '43 Colt 1911A1. I load to the bottom side of 'mid-range' with Unique powder for my practice cast loads, and have never had any leading problems. I'm talking 40 years worth of shooting the same bullets and load.

Just a side note - I've slugged my barrel years ago and decided on the .452 diameter, and I only use the old Lyman Alox lube. As far as the propellant powders go, this year's flavors don't excite me. I started with Bullseye, then switched over to Unique waaaay back. Happily, they've cleaned Unique up and it's nowhere as smokey or dirty as is used to be. But it is accurate and cycles my .45 without a hiccup.
 
#12 ·
.45 ACP and lead hardcast, no need to slug your barrel, shoot .452's. I've never, ever heard of anyone shooting anything other through a 1911 while shooting cast.

Also like others have said. Comparing FMJ to cast is like comparing apples to oranges. Cast take a bit more patience to get to shoot the way you want them to shoot.

Plenty of great sugestions here.
 
#14 ·
jim brady:

I did not mean for anyone else not to shoot cast bullet but only that I don't want to shoot them in any of my semi-auto pistols. My experience is as I reported for my guns. Your experiences may be different (??).

In the 1960's I helped friends cast bullets. I found it way to dangerous for ME so I have never even considered casting bullets. As time went on science found even more dangers in lead and lead fumes and only furthered my conviction for ME to not cast bullet.There are some out there like you, I think, that like casting and that's fine but I think it too dangerous on several levels for ME. I also don't ride carnival rides or jump out of airplanes with a parachute or ride with crazy fast drivers. This and other risk avoidance has allowed me to "last" for 72 years and I am hoping for more.

LDBennett
 
#15 ·
gdmoody:

In my 1911 I have only been successful with 230 grain RN cast WW. Any other shape/size jams. The Carbine seems to eat most anything. Yes my load is on the light side at 5.5 but it does cycle in the 1911.
The "missed" hand load rounds in the carbine, I have no idea where they went. I only had 5 holes in the whole paper target white or black. The factory loads held a fairly tight group at 50 yards maybe 3".
I'm going to revisit my loads. Picked up some Sierra 200 grain FPJ bullets to try along with my hand cast.

Phil
 
#17 ·
Other then my 6.5x57, 7mm Mag and 300Sav.. everything else I have I cast for... I love casting my own! They are more accurate then factory loads because I tailor them for the gun they are going through. I tumble lube, use a Lube/sizer, Powder coat and soon want to paper patch and swage my own 45acp J-Words

To each their own
 
#18 ·
I reload for my Mosin Nagants. QUOTE]
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If you don't mind me asking, what are your loads. No worry if you prefer not.
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I just started reloading for a Mosin this summer:
303 Brit
Good 180gr RN 37 2.87 IMR 4064
Ok-ish 150gr RN 42.5 2.87 IMR 4064
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303 Brit
Nest Test 150gr RN 42 and 43.8 2.84 Varget
Nest Test 150gr RN 45.7 and 47.6 2.84 Varget
Ran out of bullets after I made the next test loads. Haven't had a chance to get to the range.
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The TFF guys helped me out on the bullet and powder choice to get me started and always looking for more info.
 
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