Accuracy problem

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by dhom, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. dhom

    dhom New Member

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    I have a Winchester 670 in 30-06 that I've been shooting for at least thirty years.I can't get it to shoot any better than 1 1/2" three shot groups at 100yds.I've tried several reloads with 150gr. bullets up to 180gr.bullets from several manufactors including powders H4895,IMR4350,H4350,RL22, and H4831.[Also switching primers]Originally,the barrel was free floating,but I had the barrel and receiver glass bedded in an effort to help accuracy issues.[same size groups still result].I load many more rifle cartridges and have always been able to get better groups of 1" and under.ANY SUGGESTIONS?I cannot seem to find a sweet spot for this rifle.:confused:
  2. the yooper

    the yooper New Member

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    sounds like it mite be the barrel that is a tough one or triger . sounds like u no what your doing . sorry i cant help:(
  3. grcsat

    grcsat Member

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    After thirty years, what condition is the thoat in your barrel . Its not all that uncommon to see a loss of acurracy with a bit of errotion. Also how is the condition of your crown.

    In the past I have solved a few accuracy problems when all else failed was to turn the barrel back one tread and rechamber and to cut the muzel 1/2 inch and recrown.
    This was a last resort that did work on some rifles but not all. AND I do repeat as a LAST RESORT.

    I m sure you have tryd several differant scopes to rule out a problem with your optics.
    And also checked all scope mounting hardware.

    Have you had someone else try shooting a group for you?

    Gary
  4. dhom

    dhom New Member

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    HI grcsat,,,,,,,,,Erosion is definitely not the problem.With the crown I can't see anything wrong.I've also tried 4 different scopes over time and always check for loose screws and such.At least three people have tried to shoot groups with it.The trigger is approx. 3 1/2 pounds and on a hunting rifle to me that's acceptable.I can shoot[not bragging]3/4" with a 300 mag than switch to the 06 and be at 1 1/2".Somebody told me to blacken the bolt lugs to see if it touches well when camming the bolt and that could cause head space to be a little less than desirable.,,,,,,,,,,,,This rifle shot this way from new,I just blew it off because it still works fine for hunting.Just lately I've had a little time and kinda hoped I could improve it.
  5. steve4102

    steve4102 Former Guest

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    I would try some of the new and improved bore cleaning techniques. Pick up some "Wipe-Out" and soak the bore for several hours. Patch it out and repeat until the patches come out pure white. Then try your loads again.
  6. grcsat

    grcsat Member

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    I am guessing that your reloading with .308 diam. bullets.
    Have you tryd .309 ?
    Also have you played with different bullet seating , ie. seat the bullet .02 before hitting the lands when reloading ?-----( .02 example only )

    It could also be the barrel was never up to exact specs.
    When I did Winchester warrenty years ago it was common to see two rifles one serial number apart shoot totaly different group sizes.
  7. dhom

    dhom New Member

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    Hi Steve,,,,,,I will try some "WIPE-OUT"but,I gaurantee you I am not a slacker when it comes to cleaning[the marine corp beat that into to me many years ago.......ha,ha!!!!!!] Hi grcsat,,,,,,,yes sir I have played with seating depths but not the .309 bullets[good idea]What do you think about I could have gotten a restraightened barrel.It is an inexpensive rifle.
  8. carver

    carver Moderator

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    My suggestion is to start thinking about a new barrel. When I start having accuracy problems I can't fix, I start thinking "gun smith". I recently purchased a .22 Mag from Magnum Research (the old Ruger 10/22 in WRM), and it has the worst trigger I have ever encountered. I thought of purchasing a new trigger, but the better ones have to installed by a smith. My plan is take the gun to Clarks (Jim Clarks son), and have a new trigger installed. I know it would be right then.
  9. grcsat

    grcsat Member

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    dhom

    It's been a little over thirty years since I've worked at the warrenty center and must admit that even though we had a barrel straightining press , I have never once seen it used. It was always cheaper to just throw a new/replacement barrel on a rifle.
    One indication of a bent barrel is it can be set up for a certane distance and be resonably acurate, but if the shooting /target distance changes then your point of impact will change drasticly , far more than normal. The point of impact with a bent barrel will usually ,but not aways , will look like sever wind drift and most often only in one direction.

    I don't think you have a bent barrel. I do think that you may have one slightly out of spec.

    Have you slugged the barrel to feel for tight and lose spots ?

    I think I'm all out of ideas.

    Gary

    One last thing. Thirty years ago a 1 3/4 in group "for a hunting rifle " would have just been within factory standards. ( info never given to the public) Today I have no idea what those standards are.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2011
  10. dhom

    dhom New Member

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    I understand 1 3/4" as a standard,but, I have always been able to improve most rifles by simple adjusting the trigger to suit me, reloading, and maybe a little bedding adjustments.Apparently, working in the industry, you've found this to be true?........I beleive I will have to slug the barrel. Thanks for all your input.
  11. grcsat

    grcsat Member

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    I have come up with one last thing you may want to try.
    Have you ever thought of putting on a forend preasure point.
    Basicly what you do is make a preasure point of 3-5 lbs at the very end of your forstock. (always start at 3lbs and work up to a max of 5lbs).

    This is a really simple thing to do.
    First you need some acra-glass GELL.--has to be gell and nothing else.
    Next thing is to disasemble the rifle and apply release agent on the barrel .
    Now put a glob of acra-glass about one inch from the end of the forend .
    Remember you are making a preasure point so make it small . About 1 inch of contact is all you want.
    Put rifle back together.
    Now take the rifle and position it upside down. Guess I should have mentioned to put rifle in a vise or anything that will hold it.
    Now at the end of the wood forend ,hang a piece of something ATTACHED to the BARREL that weighs about 3lbs.and leave over night to cure.Try to keep the rifle as perfictly square as you can.

    So now what you have is a rifle upside down in a vise with a weight attached to the barrel.------funny note,While I was doing this at the shop, we could not find our scale or weights , so I sent one of the guys to the store for three pounds of butter and used that for my 3lbs weight.

    If this doen't work and you have tryd everthing else, Then maybe its time for a new barrel. One saving grace is that the 670 is really easy to rebarrel and shouldn't be overly expensive.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  12. dhom

    dhom New Member

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    I used to do something similar with my Rem 700's about thirty five yrs ago, actually by folding a match pack and sliding it into the forend tip. No way to tell how much pressure I was using but, if the groups changed[smaller] I was happy.A little piece of cardboard is not the way to go but, money was scarse at that time.
  13. dhom

    dhom New Member

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    If I remember right Sierra used to sell .309 bullets but, I can't find them listed anywhere.Does anyone know where to get them?
  14. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    My brother has two Ruger M77's, a 7MM Rem Mag and a 30-06. The 7MM will hold under an inch at 200 yards with the right bullets and the 30-06 won't hold much better than 3" at 100 yards with any bullet type I have tried.

    A little sandpaper and free float the barrel may help, bedding might help, new barrel might help, new trigger assembly might help, re-crowning might help, (best bet out of all these suggestions), but in reality you have a gun that will shoot minute of deer heart at 200 yards so unless you have a sudden hankering to start shooting competitively with that gun I would just clean it, shoot it clean it and shoot it as is. It will be cheaper and a lot less work. You don't really have a problem.
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