Alternating HP with FMJ

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by delta13soultaker, Nov 24, 2006.

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Mixing JHP with FMJ for mid-size self defense calibers

Poll closed Dec 24, 2006.
  1. No advantage/same difference

    6 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. Good idea

    2 vote(s)
    9.5%
  3. Bad idea

    13 vote(s)
    61.9%
  1. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    About hangun ammo...sometimes I come across this or that about alternating hollow point ammo (HP/JHP) with FMJ in a magazine (or hollow point with semi-wadcutters etc in a cylinder). Mixing HP with Glaser slugs/Magsafe etc is another.

    The merits of mixing seems to be, as best as I can tell...
    1. Gaining the penetration of FMJ while still having the trauma of JHP. With smaller calibers, a JHP may not go through arms/hands with enough energy left over to hit vital organs, but a follow up FMJ likely would (It's always likely that a direct shot at center torso will be obstructed at the worst moment).
    2. Reliability. FMJ usually has less feeding problems. If half the rounds in a magazine are FMJ...less likely to fail to feed.

    A couple facts...
    1. FMJ is less effective than JHP concerning torso hits, but it's likely, in a given caliber, to penetrate greatly more tissue.
    2. Alternating ammo will effect accuracy, but not enough to matter inside close quarters.
    3. Alternating ammo may effect firing characteristics of a handgun, especially mixing +P with target ball or heavy FMJ with lightweight HP or solid with frangible etc etc.

    Anyway I find it interesting even if not proven to be any advantage. Any opinions on the tedious idea of loading mixed ammo?
  2. Personally, I consider it a bad idea, Delta. For me at least, it's JHP all the way if the ammo is for self-defense. The only time I will load a mixed lot of ammo is in a pump action shotgun. First two up the spout, bird shot, next four #4 buck, last one a slug.
  3. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    I don't think it is a smart idea.
    The only time I mix loads like that is with a self defense shotgun because you may come acrossed a shot say the suspect has you wife or kid close by. Buckshot ain't good that is why I load buckshot then slug then buckshot and so on
  4. Ursus

    Ursus Active Member

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    I think the bad idea is using FMJ for self defense, even if you cil/mag only has those. It's not the mixing in itself.
  5. Pat Hurley

    Pat Hurley Former Guest

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    I agree with Pistol and others here - bad idea.

    Take a close look at Cor Bon PowrBall ammo, and you get the best of both worlds... hot round for velocity/force on target, feeds like a FMJ, and creates extraordinary trauma on impact like a classic JHP does.

    Pat Hurley
  6. Bruce FLinch

    Bruce FLinch New Member

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    If you used the mixed ammo to protect yourself, the Attorneys would tear you a new one, just because...:mad:
  7. EEEZNOW

    EEEZNOW New Member

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    I'm going to stick with 15 rounds of Hydra-shok.
  8. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    I GENERALLY agree with what's been said, EXCEPT....:p

    I mix them in my Makarov....I LIKE the big widemouth 115 gr SIlver Bear JHPs, especially since I throated and polished it a little, they feed like butter....BUT the 9x18 doesn't have the penetration I'd like for a carry gun, kind of like a .380 (9x17,) in fact not much difference than a 9x19....


    And one of the knocks the Russians had with it as a service round was just that...not enough penetration against guys wearing many layers of winter clothing...in fact, they seriously considered going back to the old 7.62x25 just for that....


    SO since they both group pretty much the same at 10 yds, I mix them, but JUST in the MAK.....and shotguns are of course MADE for it....
  9. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    I don't know if I'd advise anyone to do or not to do this, but thought it was interesting.

    On the legal side I could see a prosecuter possibly putting a bad light on mixed ammo in a shooting. Especially if the circumstances were iffy already.

    On the practical side I don't see how it could hurt much as long as the loads don't cause alternating shot characteristics in the weapon. Whether it's an advantage I guess could just be a matter of chance.

    It's a common thing for two shooters to strike each other in the upper extremities because one or both arms/weapon are generally raised and between the torso and incoming fire. If you only have time to score two hits...and both JHP expend most energy passing through an arm and cannot poke any vital organs...the threat will likely not be stopped very soon. A FMJ would likely zip through an arm and deep into the torso. Anyway that seems to be the logic I find interesting. But not one I'd certainly approve of or absently disregard either.

    As far as shotguns I agree polish...there are so many ammo types with so many roles that mixing ammo is very practical. In Iraq we would load two or three breaching slugs up front and 2 3/4in (regular or reduced recoil) 00 buck afterwards if we anticipated a single locked door on our entry. If there were more locked doors expected, load more slugs. (NEVER shoot hinges with buckshot lol and never shoot to breach if you can snatch it across the yard with a humvee instead)
  10. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Delta, on the hinges with buck, are your referring to the dreaded "bounceback?":eek: :cool:

    When I was just starting three gun, and "pepper poppers" were just coming into general use, guys were still using buck on them at at the close ranges and were getting injured on bounceback, so quickly the word went out and we had to switch to "coarse shot" like #2s....you still got it but it stung a little less....:eek: ;)

    But shooting steel can do strange things with pistols too...on the range we used for NRA Action Pistol we had regulation plate tables with the plates made from "armor" steel, and hitting either the plates JUST right, or the flat protective face of the "table" itself could cause some nasty bounce back with lead pistol rounds even, the worst I saw was one of my shooting buddies shooting his .357 all by himself, from either 15 or 20, I can't remember, but it WASN'T from the 10....and after one round in the middle of the string he cringes and screams something obscene and starts rubbing his chest....:eek:


    At his feet is a neat flat .38 slug, and perfectly center chest he had a WELT like he got stung by a yello jacket! We gave him heck for making such a great center mass hit!


    If anything, shooting steel is the best lesson on wearing eye protection you could have!
  11. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Sorry for delay...

    Yes, Sir, bounceback at angles that are really really unhealthy. It ain't the one ya want! Also......after all the tears, bruises, and bloodshed...depending on the structure, ya are likely as not to have failed to remove a hinge lol. Hinges are damned hard.
  12. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    About the steel plates...looking back when I was a kid first starting in revolver competitions we shot a lot of steel stuff. Dueling posts were all steel and steel drop plates were usually mounted to a horizontal iron pole etc etc. On most of the competition lanes you only had to walk about ten feet downrange to start picking up old slugs (if you were in the habit of recovering lead to melt) and I lost count of how many times I saw the telltale dust splash a few feet away on the dividing berms during sets. The more I remember, the more I don't know how in the hell we didn't get constantly hit.
  13. 45Smashemflat

    45Smashemflat Active Member

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    Think jacket fragments too.....
  14. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    I reckon most of us were shooting cast wadcutters that began life as tireweights. I know that's what I was shooting. A cop down the road sold his .38 reloads for pennies a shot.

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