An old High Standard or a Smith 41

Discussion in '.22-Rimfire Forum' started by Rugermanws, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. Rugermanws

    Rugermanws Member

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    I don't see many older Hi standards anymore and the ones I see are as much as a new Smith 41. I have three various Rugers but was thinking about the purchase one of the above handguns. I've heard more good than bad on the newer Smith model 41s. I've always liked the Hi Standard Victor model. Any Ideas?
  2. muddober

    muddober Active Member

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    Both are very good in my opinion and you should be able to buy either one at about the same price. I would suggest you go to Google and type in High Standard Victor and then do the same for the Smith.

    Ron
  3. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    Both good but if you are going to spent that much money get the one that makes you happier. I can shoot the High Standard just fine but it doesn't feel right in my hand and the 41 does. My choice would swing that way. If you prefer the other it wouldn't make much sense to get one you wouldn't be as happy with.
  4. jondar

    jondar New Member

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    I've had a Model HDM for many years, many happy times, many problems. I've never had the Smith but if I had the opportunity to do it over I think I would buy the Smith. The later models may be a different story.
  5. steve666

    steve666 New Member

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    Supermatic Trophy
    supermatic.jpg
  6. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    I have both several Hi Std's and an early 1990's S&W Model 41. Which to buy depends on what you intend to do with it. If it is regular competition then the new S&W makes more sense as getting parts and repairs is very simple with the support of a factory still in business. If the guns will only be used occasionally and in concert with other 22 pistol (not your only gun) then the Hi Std's are a good choice but.....

    The real Hi Std factory is out of business since the early 1980's (the Houston TX Hi Std company only makes clones and in some cases poor ones at that and simply owns the name, nothing more). Hi Std's can be finicky feeders of ammo and the magazines have to be either originals or the most recent Houston steel bottom plate versions, tuned precisely as the guns have no working feed ramp in the frame. The mags have to be perfect or the gun jams on feeding or fails to fully close and several other maladies. Once right they are good to go. These gun require a new recoil spring regularly and Standard Velocity ammo. Get this wrong and the frames crack. Theses are good guns, designed initially over 70 years ago with metals of the time (not modern gun metals) and have to be treated differently than a gun like a Ruger or even a S&W Model 41. Once up and running they are extremely accurate and have a trigger to kill for.

    It is common knowledge that the newer S&W Model 41's are as accurate as the older models and the main difference is the finish on the exterior of the pistol. As labor was cheaper 50 years ago, the earlier Model 41's have a highly polished finish whereas the new ones are less polished. They are still assembled each individually by a small crew of dedicated gunsmiths at the factory. Each gunsmith is responsible for his gun from the start of assembly to and through testing and makes any corrections required. Few guns today are built this way and this labor intensive assembly procedure racks up the cost of the gun new. The result is an excellent competition gun.

    I have both and maybe you should too? But if it is a Hi Std be sure to check any potential buy for a crack on the top surface of the frame between the mag well the machined away cutout for the slide lock back lever. Don't buy a cracked frame Hi Std. Once you have one in hand, change out the recoil spring , use only Std Vel ammo, and use only original and late Houston all metal magazines tuned as per the instruction you find at:

    http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbarta/otherstuff.html

    LDBennett
  7. Big Shrek

    Big Shrek Active Member

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    You can find older High Standards on Auction sites (have to split the name in half on here), & other gun auction sites.

    Plenty available..

    -----

    I'm gonna point out, it is STUPID to have an auction site's name blocked. It's annoying as heck to find a pic of a rare gun, and NOT be able to post it to help someone else out.

    If the site owners are THAT scared of an Auction Site cutting in on their Gun Sales Postings, they have bigger problems than they think they have, and it's no wonder folks aren't posting many guns for sale here.

    This is the ONLY site I've ever found that blocks the names of reputable auction sites.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  8. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Just FWIW, and just for me, my Ruger Mk I bull barrel shoots better than my S&W Model 41. Not by much, but better for me.

    Jim
  9. Rugermanws

    Rugermanws Member

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    Jim I am a Ruger fan and if there's one gun I hope to wear out it's going to be my Mark II bull barrel with an Aim point Dot scope. I have a 4 digit serial number Ruger that my dad bought from a catalog in 1949, I wish he'd kept the box! I also have a Liberty Ruger bought in 1976, and I have the 50th anniversary model as well. I don't shoot these but I do shoot the bull barrel. To all you gentlemen thank you for your advise. I wish I could buy an older Smith Model 29 but why bother, I couldn't afford to shoot it anyway. I have always like the Smith 41 and if I can find a well taken care of used one I just might do it. At least for now I still can afford to shoot 22s. Thanks to you all.
  10. Rugermanws

    Rugermanws Member

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  11. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    If you are looking in the $1,000 price range (which it sounds like from the Victor or M41), you might give the Benelli MP95e a look. I find that it fits me better than either a M41 or Victor.
  12. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    While the Benelli MP95E appears to be an excellent choice in the $1000 price class I went for the MP90S. It is basically the same pistol with ergonomic grips and a two stage fully adjustable trigger that is to kill for. While you can add those features to a MP95S you certainly can not do it for the same investment.

    The grip, as anyone who has ever shot a target gun with a similar grip system, helps greatly to steady the gun. The trigger is adjustable in pull level for both stages, how long the first stage is (zero to some), trigger position in the trigger guard (for us small handed individuals) and the angle of the trigger face. This is just about the least expensive Olympic level pistol you can buy. The gun is accurate (and so would be the MP95E), handles well (thanks to the ergo grip) and has a trigger to kill for (love those two stage triggers! but didn't in the past until I used one extensively). This is a real competition target gun. I have one because I can, not because I need it. But the magazines are only 5 shots (there's that competition thing again) and extras are expensive. Either the MP95E or the MP90S (my choice) are excellent guns to own. I think even the MP95E might be a step above the S&W Model 41, which I also own, but would most certainly pop for the more expensive MP90S if a Benelli were in my future. While a red dot or a scope mounting is possible, a field strip requires the scope be removed unless (???) Larry's special mount fixes that (???). The target sights are a total joy to use even for me with my old eyes.

    Larrys Guns is the importer/distributor:

    http://www.larrysguns.com/Departments/New-Pistols/FONT-SIZE3-COLORBLACKB--BenelliBFont.aspx

    LDBenentt
  13. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    LD,
    If you have a 95 or a 90 with the ergo (Rink??) grips, ( My 95 has them :)) you aren't likely to be strapping on a holster for it and going hunting or such, so the 5 shot mag shouldn't be much of a concern. (I have a couple of 9 rd mags, but I don't think they are available any longer.)

    Also, I might mention that the standard grips on the 95 are ambidextrous.
  14. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    deadin:

    They really are different guns (share a bunch of the same parts, though). The MP95E is more like a S&W Model 41 whereas the MP90S is an inexpensive Olympic target competition gun but the trigger is so good on the MP90S that it seems a shame to buy the Benelli without it. It really depends on the intended use. If it is target shooting only then the MP90S makes sense but if it is hunting and holsters then the MP95E or some other gun makes the most sense.

    My MP90S only goes to the range to shoot at paper targets. I have many other 22 pistols that I would take plinking (I don't hunt or ever strap a 22 pistol to my side). If I want protection in the field I use my holstered SIG P225. I know, not good for bears but certainly good enough for protection against humans and smaller animals.

    So your points are very valid indeed.

    LDBennett
  15. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    Somehow I just can't wrap my mind around $1,439 as an "inexpensive" target gun.:D
    If I were a good enough shot to justify the need, I think I would drop another $400 and get a Pardini SP.;) (They seem to have less "problems" in the long run.)

    I took a good look at Larry's Guns mount for the Benelli's. It looks like it may be removable without messing with the adjustments. I think it just slides off the barrel shroud.
  16. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    deadin

    "Inexpensive" is a relative thing. Compared to all the other Olympic style pistols in the market place, the Benelli is "inexpensive". The MP90S is not just a target gun but an Olympic style target gun.... there is a big difference especially price wise as you noted.

    It was quite a stretch for me and another $400 was beyond my limit for a Pardini. As I implied before, the MP95E is the direct competition for the S&W Model 41. In fact The 41's list price is more than $200 more than the list price of the MP95S. For a few more dollars ($300) you can have the MP95E. As far as what you actually pay for a gun, apparently you can find the 41's priced at about $1000 or so I'm told but not where I live. So I'm back to only about $300 more for the MP90S. The MP95E looks like a bargain!

    I solved the problem by having both the 41 and the MP90S. Both are excellent and shoot way better than my abilities. I own such fine pistols not because I need them but because I want them. Anymore, I rarely buy guys based on need or price, but I buy what tickles my fancy. I went through the limited resources and buying guns that made "sense" years ago and no longer do that. But of course we all have resources limits and mine was right at the the price of the MP90S. I made no compromise in my mind... I got an Olympic style pistol for a "reasonable" price that shoots well, is nicely made, and looks fantastic.

    As for the Larrys mount, I don't like to have to take mounts off guns to clean them. I field strip clean my guns and do not like to clean any pistol with the slide still in place, especially 22 blowback operated guns that coat the inside of the gun with crude with every shot. Removable mounts that "don't loose zero" always raise a question in my mind. I have not seen any that I think really do that exactly. I hate having to re-zero guns after every cleaning session. I'd have to get better assurances, like the slides comes off without removing the mount. Besides the iron sights on the gun are so good I enjoy using them and don't feel the need for a red dots on the gun. I have several other target 22's with red dot on them. The MP90S doesn't "need" one too.

    LDBennett
  17. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on that, pistol including rifle!
    Here a while back a friend bought a quick release scope mount to go on his
    $1500+ rifle and we zeroed it in and tried it out, taking it off and had to re-zero. We even done it a 2nd time, and that re-inforced my thoughts about that!
  18. Danwin22

    Danwin22 Member

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    I have a High Standard Duramatic 101 .22 auto which is a low end offering but it sure works good.

    Very accurate and no problems.

    I bought it used from a dealer and had them run a full mag on their range and I told them to fire it as fast as they could pull the trigger to make sure springs and extractor worked OK.

    No problem, it functioned perfectly. Some day I hope to get some more expensive High Standards.

    I would recommend trying out any used gun you want to buy, just to make sure everything is OK.
  19. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    I’m not disagreeing with you. Had a MP90S been available when I bought my MP95e, I probably would have bought one, but that was at the time between EAA stopped importing and Larry’s picking up the line. (In fact, I was upgrading (for less money) from a M41 at the time.)
    I did spend the extra $200+ (after a year or so) on the Rink grip and consider it money well spent. (I call it Rugering.;)) As for the adjustable trigger, it would be nice but I’m not “aware” of the trigger on my MP95, so I wouldn’t be messing with adjustments even if it had them.

    Agreed on the “don’t lose zero” mounts. They do regardless of how advertized. As I am a member of the “Don’t Clean after every Shot” school, I only pull the gun down for a detail clean about mid season when shooting in league. Mine doesn’t go off of zero so much that a few shots won’t bring it back. (Besides, there’s a large difference between the guns zero and my “zero”.) I do keep a brush on station and whisk out the action between stages and pull a bore snake through the barrel after each match.
    I do wish I could still use irons, but my eyes are just too bad anymore. I even went the route of the special Champions Choice shooting glasses and diopter and that doesn’t even work for me anymore.

    Actually my only complaint with the Benelli is the ejection problem when a ‘scope or dot is mounted. I still get an occasional “bounce back” into the action thereby causing a FTF.:mad:

    I don’t know if I related it on this forum but the league I shoot in has another MP95e user. Last winter league we both had identical FTFs on the 2nd shot in the First String Rapid Fire stage. (Bounce back into the action.) The Second string went fine. Then we both had another “Bounce Back” FTF on the 2nd shot of the Alibi Round. Weird!!.:confused:

    Dean
  20. Big Shrek

    Big Shrek Active Member

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    High Standard is the ONLY American pistol manufacturer to ever win Olympic Gold.

    High Standard RapidFire (.22short)
    [​IMG]




    But in all honesty, the Beretta Neos is all you need these days...it'll do the job.
    [​IMG]

    The carbine kit makes the NEOS even better :D
    [​IMG]
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