Another AR Question

Discussion in 'The Pre-Ban Forum' started by Zigzag2, Feb 26, 2003.

  1. Zigzag2

    Zigzag2 Guest

    55Kickstart
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    (11/6/01 10:23:36 am)
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    First, nice board you have here. Glad I found it.

    Okay, I have a new, all Colt AR I had built a few years ago by a reputable shop. Fired once to test, been stored from then on. Here are the details:

    AR-15 Sporter Match HBAR, M4, 16" flat top upper with grenade barrel machining & side strap, suppressor, 4 position stock, and bayonete lug. Serial number is an MH that falls within the pre-ban range.

    What have I got here and is it legal at this time?

    Thanks for your knowledge.




    Edited by: 55Kickstart at: 11/6/01 10:24:20 am

    55Kickstart
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (11/6/01 10:33:49 am)
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    This is the list I used for comparison:

    Colt (800)962-COLT
    CC001616 and Below - Pre-Ban
    CH019500 and Below - Pre-Ban
    GC018500 and Below - Pre-Ban
    LH011326 and Below - Pre-Ban
    MH086020 and Below - Pre-Ban
    NL004800 and Below - Pre-Ban
    SL027246 and Below - Pre-Ban
    SP360200 and Below - Pre-Ban
    1963 SP00001-SP00023**
    1964 SP00101
    1965 SP02501
    1966 SP05600
    1967 SP08250
    1968 SP10750
    1969 SP14000-SP14653
    1970 SP15001-SP15473
    1971 SP16001
    1972 SP19401
    1973 SP24201
    1974 SP32601
    1975 SP43801
    1976 SP55301
    1977 SP67651
    1978 SP83400
    ST038100 and Below - Pre-Ban
    TA10100 and Below - Pre-Ban
    BD000134 and Below - Pre-Ban (AR-15A3 Tactical Carbine - very rare model)
    MT00001 and Above - Post-Ban
    BK000001and Above - Post Ban (CAR-A3)
    CST000001 and Above - Post-Ban (Began Late 1997 Production)
    CMH000001 and Above - Post Ban
    CCH010000 and Above - Post Ban MT6700, MT6700C and MT6700CH series, 1998 production

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2729
    (11/6/01 10:51:58 am)
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    That would be a post 1989 rifle and sad to say, no...In reality it is not in legal configuration. Remember, preban has two time periods......1989 and 1994. 1989 and before can have these features, after 1989....you may not construct an assualt rifle/pistol. Many will tell you part content ect., that is not the case, when the rifle contains every feature contained in the ban.....USA made or otherwise. Regards LTS
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    55Kickstart
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    (11/6/01 11:11:50 am)
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    Figures! Okay, so I understand this, if I had a pre '89 lower it would be in compliance?

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/6/01 11:18:07 am)
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    Correct. , and by the way... WELCOME!!!
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    55Kickstart
    Member
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    (11/6/01 11:40:13 am)
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    LOL Thank you for the welcome and for the advice!

    gpostal
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/6/01 12:06:45 pm)
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    welcome kickstart

    55Kickstart
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    (11/6/01 5:07:29 pm)
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    Here's an odd twist. I just got off the phone with Colt Customer Service. They did a ser# search and said my setup is LEGAL per federal standards. Now, where is our confusion? How am I, Colt, or you experts misinterpreting the requirements?

    This is the problem for me. I get too many stories as to what is legal and what is not. I have written to Colt Historical to obtain a letter of authinticity based on this phone conversation to have on hand.

    Come on guys, let's get to the bottom of this. If not for me, then for all the other owners that are confused. SMILE

    Edited by: 55Kickstart at: 11/6/01 5:10:38 pm

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/6/01 11:08:41 pm)
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    Yo! Doc!, leave me hangin in the breeze......would ya.
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    AntiqueDr
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/6/01 11:55:50 pm)
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    OK.

    As I understand it, the 1989 ban (18 USC 922(r)) is an import ban. This is where we get the 11 parts this, 11 parts that deal.

    The 1994 Crime Bill (18 USC 922(v)) is the one that specifically prohibits manufacture of the AR-15 with more than a certain number of bad features. So, this receiver is decidedly pre-1994. However, was the gun assembled into its current configuration prior to 9/13/94? If not, then it is prohibited. Furthermore, it must be marked with date of manufacture and "Law Enforcement Only" markings.


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    Edited by: AntiqueDr at: 11/6/01 11:56:24 pm

    Omicron from GB
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    (11/6/01 11:57:35 pm)
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    Ok, I have a related question. According to 55's list at the beginning of this post, an AR15 SP1 serial no SP571XX would have been made in '76.

    This confuses me because I thought that it was only the first couple of years that Colt put AR15's on the civilian market without a forward assist. Since this particular rifle doesn't have one, my guess woulda been that the gun was made in '63 to '65 or so.

    So which is it? Did SP1's not have forward assists for all those years (at least throught '76), or is Duncan Long correct that it was only in the first few years of production that they didn't have them? Can anyone clarify?

    Edited by: Omicron from GB at: 11/7/01 12:00:12 am

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/7/01 11:02:42 am)
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    Thanks Doc, after rereading my post...I removed it. It confused me and I`m sure it would have confused the facts. Man what a ramble it was.

    Re: Omi, Colt did sell "no forward assist" AR`s "SP1`s up until 1976....

    55, my lousey responce to you was the assumption you had had a receiver (preban) and had had someone build it after 1994.....even though it was a preban receiver....Sorry....I have failed the test. My humble apoligy.

    I will now quitely go away.....................
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    55Kickstart
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (11/7/01 12:24:08 pm)
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    Wait! Don't go away. To clarify, it was a new-to-me receiver, but a preban manufactured, new receiver. I then had the M4 and stock fitted. If the shop built this for me after '94 then they pulled a big boo boo I take it?

    And yes I would agree your BATF source would be considered more reliable than Colt LOL Colt won't come knockin at my door.





    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/7/01 12:42:32 pm)
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    Dang mass confusion of laws! 55, it would depend on several things.

    Was this receiver ever a complete rifle?
    Was it simply a lower?

    Yes, if the dealer/smith built it up after 1994, if it was never a complete rifle.
    But as always, how would someone prove it......well, if it was logged in for build up, as it should have been; Then a record of time exsist. Beyond that, this is one of the most misunderstood laws on the books.....by the way, Colt will have a record if this was a complete rifle or just a lower receiver. If it was a complete rifle at it`s sold date, no problem.....then. Slinking slowly back into my hole.....LTS
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    AntiqueDr
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/7/01 12:44:23 pm)
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    That is correct. Just because a stripped receiver was manufactured prior to 9/13/94 does not mean it can be assembled into a pre-ban configuration rifle after 9/13/94. The question then is: how would ATF know when the rifle was assembled, and in what configuration? They might be able to figure that out, they might not. I understand that ATF did canvass major manufacturers shortly after the ban to determine what stripped receivers were out there...


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    55Kickstart
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    (11/7/01 12:56:23 pm)
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    It was a complete rifle and I chose not to buy the original top. Now I wish I had but you know about hind sight.

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/7/01 1:06:10 pm)
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    If it was a complete rifle, you have no problems then.

    You could have splained it better to start with and we could have avoided this long winded ramble, I believe your going to fit in just fine, here OPPS! saw my shadow, back to the hole.heheheheheheh
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    55Kickstart
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (11/7/01 1:11:58 pm)
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    Okay, thanks for all the info guys. I didn't know it being a complete rifle would have made a difference. Now I do! I will stil get paoerwork from Colt to CMA, Thanks again

    Tac401
    Administrator
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    (11/7/01 8:06:37 pm)
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    Welcome Aboard 55Kickstart!

    Feel ree to join us in the General Discussion forum,
    we have a lot of fun there,and any other of the forums
    you would like just jump right on in!
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    Omicron from GB
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    (11/16/01 8:33:05 pm)
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    Thanks LTS, I appreciate the answer.

    Tennessee Boomerang
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    (12/6/01 2:12:06 pm)
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    You know, if you go to old.ar15.com/ all of your questions will be answered. Very good information.
  2. BIGDAVE54

    BIGDAVE54 New Member

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  3. BIGDAVE54

    BIGDAVE54 New Member

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    Maybe when we get a progun leader in office to replace the current zealots...we can get all of this mumbo jumbo struck down. It appears to me it is just a cloudy set of laws to bar citizens from their constitutional right to the 2ND AMMENDMENT.
  4. Maine04657

    Maine04657 New Member

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    This is due to STATE laws. NOT federal. The AW fed edition is gone. The restrictions on the bs parts and configuration are all due to your state. Many states have no laws regarding how you configure a ar as they realize it is irrelevant to those whop break the law. Also that is it anti second.
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