Any Thoughts on Training?

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by whatugawkinat, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. whatugawkinat

    whatugawkinat New Member

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    100% agreed. The folks on this site are wonderful, full of knowledge , experience and guidance. Not to mention patient enough to deal with the less knowledgeable and experienced :p
  2. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

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    I don't see where anyone said that.

    I am saying that there are gun owners who actually believe in this countries Constitution and Bill of Rights, which does give us the right to keep and bear arms. Then there are other gun owners that believe in "reasonable" GUN CONTROL. You can guess which category I fall into?

    Who's definition of "reasonable" are we supposed to allow to be shoved down our throats? Mine, yours, a government official? Which government official? When does it stop being "reasonable"? Who decides?

    As for training, there doesn't seem to be a problem with EVERYONE who is legal to own a firearm, being allowed to carry it concealed WITHOUT ANY (government issued) PERMIT in states like Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, and now Wyoming. Or in the multitude of states that allow OPEN carry. No blood running in the streets, as predicted by some.

    You are new here whatugawkinat, and I am not calling you names, and don't want to run you off. But I would hope that you would realize that when coming onto a gun forum, and shouting for MORE unconstitutional gun control. While there are those who would agree with you, there are others that will have a different opinion, based on this countries founding documents.
  3. Buckshot

    Buckshot Active Member

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    Though I don't support advanced training as a strict requirement for CCW permits, there is no question it can have immense benefit should you choose to seek it.

    +1 for Gunsite. Also look into Clint Smith's Thunder Ranch in Oregon and Massad Ayoob's Defense Associates in Connecticut.

    If you have the money and the time/means to travel, there are a lot of great schools.
  4. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

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    To make it clear where I am coming from.

    I DO advocate training. I have been through multiple classes VOLUNTARILY. I believe it is a HUGH responsibility for any person who decides to carry a firearm.

    Personally I shoot competition. I'm too old and slow to win much, but I want to keep myself competent enough to hit what I aim at. I think that is part of MY responsibility, because I have chosen to carry a firearm, as it should be everyone's that chooses to carry.

    I have shot some courses that police are required to pass, to stay qualified to carry their sidearm. While some are GREAT, and most officers do OK, frankly it scares me to know how "some" of the police officers shoot. Shooting a firearm is NOT their forte. And this is a requirement for their continued employment???

    So, like I said, I do SUPPORT training, but I can not, and will not support any further infringement on our right to keep and bear arms. No matter how "well intentioned" it is.
  5. carver

    carver Moderator

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  6. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    i've seen add on tv ( late night ) and in mags for civ training of self defense tactics.. even pseudo swat style training.. usually is spendy and is a multi day course with real range and live fire and building entering / egressing techniques.. etc.. bad guy take down.. stealth.. etc.. tactical equipment usage.. like baton and flashlight.. etc.. etc..
  7. whatugawkinat

    whatugawkinat New Member

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    Where is WV are you located? I'm in North Central. Would be nice to get a recommendation for a local official.
  8. whatugawkinat

    whatugawkinat New Member

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    @pickenup, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was trying to make a statement on the importance of more skilled and capable carriers. It seems as if that's the main reason more people don't support gun ownership and carrying. They feel that most owners are incompetent fools who brandish the power of a weapon for their own egos. Thus the reason I stressed an idea that could possibly change the mindset of a lot of those who put our right at risk. Again, I didn't mean to sort you into the "careless" category, I love to ramble and debate my opinions :p. You're input is fantastic as well as the input from countless others on this site.
  9. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd Member

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    Whatugawkinat, pickenup, Jack, hammer etal,
    As stated, practice, training and then more practice and more training. This or these are criteria inherent with the acceptance of the CCW permit or even just responsible gun ownership.
    If I could make a mandatory requirement without adding another worthless law or rule it would have to do with training and practice and study of actual threats and attacks as well as the responses that were successful whether they were LEO or civilian. (Not wise nor effective IMHO to spend one minute studying the responses of those who perished in their attempts to fend off their attackers).

    As a young man with aspirations of becoming an LEO following in the respected, footsteps of my father who was and now a retired officer, I was encouraged and actually prodded to investigate and participate in self defense and or other means of survival training.
    As a result, over the past 50 plus years I have done everything that I can or could to prepare myself to respond as necessary to specific threats directed at myself or my immediate family. Needless to say, I believe it was exciting, as well as educational and I enjoyed every minute all these years and continue even now to do so.

    I believe it is a result of some or all of this awareness, training, practice and instructing that I was able to survive a violent, unsuspected, attack many years ago. I may never know, but I am still here, alive and well with the memory of that horrific event and that has always been and will continue to be further encouragement to do exactly today as you are doing now or beginning to do as of this posting.
    I truly hope it will help you as it has me and many others whether or not they even recognize it, to establish your "mindset".
    For me, it has been and remains steadfast and unequivocal: I will never quit, I will not fail and I will not allow you to take my life, period, ever. I will if you make me do so, fight you with every fiber of my being and you will never, ever defeat me.

    So again, with that specific success, my mindset, along with the testimonies of others who have also walked away from the "elephant" there is no substitute for "quality" training and "quality" practice along with the same studies relevant to what why and how to respond when the "flag goes up" and in the face of the most terrifying event that can happen to a human being.
    NOTHING else will or can possibly compare, ever. It is the ultimate terror.

    Whatugawkinat, keep asking the questions, find the quality courses and instructors and learn the best subjects to study to help you to become the best that you can be as a responsible gun owner and ccw holder when the time comes.

    My efforts lead me to become the best that I can be and not only for me and my family but as a result, to become the best instructor that my students such as yourself could possibly find and seek out for that same quality information whether it was basic, introduction to a firearm, (pistol, rifle or shotgun), lights, batons, pepper spray or taser, (electronic deterrent). Remember, not everyone is born with a gun in hand nor do many of them encounter a firearm in any form especially for possible use in self defense until they seek out person or persons to provide such introduction and basic training. I have personally, always felt my basic intro is or was perhaps as important as any of the more advanced training courses that I have provided to LEO or civilian over the past 35 years.
    Many of my students never felt the need to go further or beyond a basic understanding or working, knowledge of the firearm in question and I made absolutely certain they had everything that I could give them at the time and with the time they afforded me to spend with them. "I have kept many critiques from my students which also helped me understand their confidence and satisfaction with my presentations at every level".

    Others have given you good beginning info to find such instruction(s). Take your time and read again the good advice these guys have provided and find yourself instructor(s) and institution(s) that will provide you with nothing but the best for your level at the time. I am sure others here have had some of the same experiences that I have encountered even with the best background investigation and recommendations, when you get to class and the instructor wants to impress everyone with his/her "war stories". These have also been the ones who will be above answering or helping the beginners or new people or the timid or unsure who really want and need the help but will be terribly and unnecessarily neglected during the course in favor of his testosterone filled hangers-on. Women in particular have been the recipient of this neglect all to often in my experience and it is they who always seem to ask the best questions and try the hardest to do exactly what they are told and I have visited with countless instructors (quality) instructors who agree with that assessment.

    I have had the extreme pleasure of attending courses and at one time or another co-instructing with some of the very best in our profession (gun owners, gunsmiths, instructors, institutions, and fellow CCW holders and I continue at my age to attend more courses and practice almost daily including handling of my specific CCW firearm, flashlight, baton spray and running 300 to 500 rounds per week with either or both hands, sitting, standing, falling down, laying down and getting up, night shoot, and day shoot just to stay tuned up to the best of my ability.

    Some of my courses, institutions and instructors and the reason I mention them is because so many of them are still operational and are among if not the best in the country.
    Thunder Ranch/ Clint Smith, Gunsite, Maas Ayoob/Lethal Force, Robbie Baarkman/Robar industries, Louie Auerback, and Dennis Tueller the originator of the "Tueller drill" or the 21 foot rule of engagement.
    I believe that if you check on these as well as others mentioned by Carver, pickenup and buckshot you may find the right person and or institution to get you started depending upon your current level and the tool you would like to concentrate upon at this point.

    Did not mean for this to become an epitaph or book, but I felt/feel that this level of questioning deserves the very best any of us can provide in order to help a fellow/lady CCW proponent or just a plain wrapped gun owner who wants and seeks only the best instruction.

    Good luck and please keep us posted on your decision and the outcome, (hopefully satisfying and successful for you ) as you become involved.
    Please feel free to PM if I can add to or help in any way with more information.

    UF
  10. Cajun Chooter

    Cajun Chooter New Member

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    Check out Tactical Response - Camden, Tn - by Jim Yeager... i am going in July to take the Fighting Pistol course.. check out his video's

    cosmic
  11. ozo

    ozo Well-Known Member

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    I would begin at your local range.......
    most any/all will have classes
  12. ozo

    ozo Well-Known Member

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    "As a firearm owner and lover I feel it should be a requirement for anyone wanting a CCW permit to be able to handle not only their firearm, but any situation that happens to come about. Point in question:"--whatugawkinat

    I think [personally] that we have so much over-regulation as it is
    that we need no more requirements of any sort for guns....IMHO :mad:

    As for classes/training to handle ANY situation that happens.....
    any and all scenarios........NEVER HAPPEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Google the lady in Gwinnett GA this past winter that was :
    In her shower...soapy
    Only had a .22lr in bedroom
    Not used to guns
    Man attacked her
    She shot him twice, he fled
    She freaked, ran to neighbors,naked
    Friend called 911
    Cops found attacker in street......DEAD
    Absolutely no training for that scenario......
    She was 53yrs old
    Not that classes aren't good........just beware of :
    What they promise
    What they charge
    USE YOUR BRAIN......like hiring a plumber, get another opinion...
    Frontsight in Nevada, Dr Ignacio Pizzazz......great place for training...
    you have that much $$$$ to spend on classes, it's great. The average people
    can not afford such luxury. It really is a great place.....but lest I degress...
    even they could NOT have prepared the lady in Gwinnett for that scenario....
    Jus' sayin'...........[from whom,when,where.....will you have to protect yourself or family ?] Best advice....get on the 'common sense' train....and ride that train to the farthest point on the map !
    P.S. Use your brain
  13. ryan42

    ryan42 New Member

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    Hey where you been pickenup?I havent seen you on forever.
  14. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

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    I'm still here everyday, just don't say much anymore.
    Changes........ya know.
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