Anyone know what this weaopon is ?

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member

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    RDK24
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (2/6/03 11:05:08 am)
    Reply Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    Ok I found this while watching a doco on the eastern front, it seems to be some sort of grenade launcher which fires a round explosive charge if you look closely at these images:
    www.wn.com.au/dannyw/russianzooka.zip
    3 big clues, it seems it has some sort of stand, the round projectile (some sort of HE charge) and the base/shield at the end of it.

    Hope someone can identify this weapon as its been puzzeling me for a while
    <img src="http://www.wn.com.au/dannyw/rdklogo3.jpg">

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3669
    (2/6/03 5:53:38 pm)
    Reply Re: Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    Hi RDK24.....welcome to TFF.

    I couldn't bring your picture up. Can you try posting it again?

    RDK24
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (2/6/03 8:00:57 pm)
    Reply Re: Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    www.wn.com.au/dannyw/pdvd_000.jpg
    www.wn.com.au/dannyw/pdvd_001.jpg
    www.wn.com.au/dannyw/pdvd_002.jpg
    www.wn.com.au/dannyw/pdvd_003.jpg
    www.wn.com.au/dannyw/pdvd_004.jpg
    www.wn.com.au/dannyw/pdvd_005.jpg

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3764
    (2/8/03 8:17:40 pm)
    Reply Re: Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    I have no idea, and I checked every possible thing I have on Russian WWII stuff.

    But it looks ALOT like a German RP54 or 54/1, the later model of the panzerschreck with the shield.

    I'm wondering if it is a captured one they are using, God knows the Russians never threw anything away, and kept weapons in service no matter what.

    Now for a REAL wild-ass guess...MAYBE the ball being loaded in the muzzle is a field expedient demo charge, they are going to launch with some kind of charge, (BP maybe, or a captured practice rocket???) located in the back where the rocket would have been, fired electrically like the rocket. The ball doesn't look like it's precision made at all, but it's about the right size, 88mm or about 3.5".

    It wouldn't have had much range, but then again it doesn't look like they are using it at much range either.

    It just might work.

    I figure they may have captured a few launchers, but captured supplies of RP43 or RPGr4992s would be hard to find, they probably would have found some way to keep them in action, especially in city fighting. The Russians didn't have anything handheld they could use for fire support close up like a bazooka, Piat, or Panzerschreck, so this may be a plausible explanation.


    Just a guess anyway, but I hope an intelligent one...
    Anybody who thinks money can buy happiness needs to remember Michael Jackson.

    RDK24
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (2/8/03 8:26:22 pm)
    Reply Re: Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    i doubt it is a RPzB 43, 54 or 54/1 as the plate is at the very end, and it seems to have some kind of stand and is fired from behind the weapon, if it was a rocket launcher it could not be fired from there as you would know the heat would kill the firer. By the looks of it, it has a front and rear site but very basic and a stand in the form of a ski like the Finnish anti tank rifles.
    <img src="http://www.wn.com.au/dannyw/rdklogo3.jpg">

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3767
    (2/8/03 10:13:10 pm)
    Reply Re: Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    The only thing else I could guess is some kind of direct fire mortar...there were several "spigot" type mortars used by engineers from some nations (like the Brits) for attacking fortifications, with direct fire, fired by a trigger. But I definitely do NOT know if the Russians had them.

    Could the "tube" be some kind of shroud over a smaller barrel? (Like the"cooling tube" around the barrel of a Lewis MG?) And the ball actually a plug to keep debris out, and it is being WITHDRAWN in the photo, instead of "loaded?"

    I don't know, you have me stumped, and pulling out all my old reference books looking at pictures.

    I've got a neat reference on just about EVERY WWII AT gun or device, and there is nothing in the Russian section that comes close, and it's pretty comprehesive.

    I may have to hit my local library next week, they have an old reference book on Soviet weapons I've dug through before...
    Anybody who thinks money can buy happiness needs to remember Michael Jackson.

    RDK24
    Member
    Posts: 7
    (2/12/03 5:08:23 am)
    Reply Re: Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    After finding an issue of 'History of the second world war' (The siege of sebastopol) i found a good pic of a type-38 mortar, it looks like thats what it is, plate at 1 end, small scope like sight with a small front site.
    <img src="http://www.wn.com.au/dannyw/rdklogo3.jpg">

    Go Get Beer
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 73
    (2/12/03 6:45:42 am)
    Reply Re: Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    So much to learn, so little time.
    Thank you for sharing that info with us, RDK.

    RDK24
    Member
    Posts: 8
    (2/12/03 7:23:41 am)
    Reply Re: Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    Do you agree ? its extremely hard to find out if thats what it is searching the net. I think the projectile is the key now, i don't think its firing possition is text book possition either if you can see in the 1st few pics the recoil nocked it around abit which is to be expected from a 120mm mortar fired horizontally.

    Go Get Beer
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 74
    (2/12/03 8:51:24 am)
    Reply Re: Anyone know what this weapon is ?
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    This is the wz. 38 infantry mortar, designed by B. Shavyrin. It is a conventional piece (fixed firing pin) AFAIK. I don't know how it would be fired horizontally. It would definately need some heavy converting work. Speaking of heavy, as you can see in the firing position it weighs at least 260 kg. In the last picture your piece is lugged about by just one guy, if I see that correctly. I've heard of Russian brawn, but a quarter of a ton is a bit much.
    history.serw.com.pl/muzeum/m120.html
    They had to lose some weight off the plate, maybe cut the barrel down (if they wanted a spring-powered firing pin they would need to modify the rear end anyway).
    I can't find any info on such a conversion. I'll keep trying.

    Also the grenade weight is 16 kg. Two of them would make a backpack heavy. It seems this weapon's crew is just 2 soldiers, one would be carrying the weapon itself (assuming they got the weight down to about 1/3rd of the original) and the other the ammo (3-4 grenades?). Not much of an assault piece, even if you could get the recoil under control.

    Edited by: Go Get Beer at: 2/13/03 4:52:29 am
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