Are concealed carry permits a violation of the Second Amendment?

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by ski9393, Aug 21, 2009.

  1. ski9393

    ski9393 New Member

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    Amendment II
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    That being said, is a concealed carry permit a violation of this amendment? In the earlier part of the 1900s, the south made people pay a fee to be able to vote. This was done to keep african americans from voting. Most, if not all, states require a fee to attain a permit to carry a concealed firearm. I believe this fee to be an infringement on my right to carry a firearm. I don't think that the permit itself is, but having to pay money for it is an infringement. I think that it is a good safety for our public servants, that the mentally illl and convicted felons cannot carry, and having that permit is showing the police that, you are a responsible citizen.

    The problem again comes back to the money, the root of all evil. Having to pay money to obtain a driver's license or take a bar exam is fair because these aren't protected rights.

    Whether you agree with me or not I would like to thank you for taking the time to read this. Thanks to all the TFF members.
  2. carver

    carver Moderator

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    CCW permits are a direct violation of the 2nd Amendment which does guarentee the rights of American citizens to keep, and bear arms without infringments.
  3. Artemus

    Artemus New Member

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    My CCW permit may be illegal,however I am surely glad I have one in my wallet seeing how I live in Massachusetts.
  4. mrkirker

    mrkirker New Member

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    Only an 'infringement' if it impedes (prevents).
  5. Suwannee Tim

    Suwannee Tim New Member

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    In Florida they set up a "trust fund" which held the CW fees. The policy was that the fees were to pay for the costs of issuing the permit. So far, so good. More and more people were applying for permits both Floridians and out-of-staters but the legislature did not approve the expenditure of funds from the "trust fund" to buy new equipment or pay salaries. The fund grew to about $60M (I think) but the wait for a permit got longer and longer. The money was too much for the politicians to resist. They raided the "trust fund" and many others like it, taking the money to spend on other programs. Maybe they should call it a "no trust fund"
  6. carver

    carver Moderator

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    While it does not prevent, it does impede, therefore it's illegal. Under the current laws for CCW you have been prevented your rights according to the Constitution.
  7. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

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    i dont mind paying for it. i dont want some ahole in the media saying i got something for nothing.
  8. ski9393

    ski9393 New Member

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    I guess until the south finally gets tired of the north telling us what to do in our backyards and starts a really free country again, a concealed carry permit is a neccesarry evil even though it is a big time infringement/impedment on the right.
  9. BETH

    BETH Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you totally. On another thought i think every state you should be able to carry out in the open--if all the crooks say all the people carrying maybe they would think twice
  10. Kieran McCaig

    Kieran McCaig New Member

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    What is the cost involved for a CCW is it a one time fee
  11. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

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    So the mentally ill and convicted felons will OBEY the law, and will not carry without a permit? Ya....OK........

    Of course "ANY PERMIT" it is an infringement on the right to "bear" arms.
    Just more government control.
    You should not have to beg the government for a "permit" to exorcise a constitutional RIGHT.

    Vermont is the only state that has it right (NO permit needed) with Alaska being a close second. (NO permit needed, but with stipulations)
  12. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

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    Different rules for different states.
    Some have a one time fee, for a lifetime permit.
    Other states require a renewal (example, every 5 years) with a NEW fee, of course.
  13. ski9393

    ski9393 New Member

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    In Virginia the cost of a carry permit is different for each city but isn't to exceed $50. Alot of counties it is $30 and in my county it is $50. In addition it is to be renewed every 5th year.

    Pickenup, of course felons aren't going to obey the rules, that's how they make their living, the mentally ill, well, there's different varieties of them. But that piece of paper you show a Policeman when you get pulled over tells the Policeman, yes I am armed but I am a lawabiding citizen. Therefore, I don't see the concealed permit as neccessarily a bad thing,even though it is a pain in the butt. I do think it's an infringement still however especially when you consider the due process clause of the 14th amendment, in section 1 there is a due process clause, which in my understanding, says basically, no state is to undermine the constituition by making a law to deny someone of life,liberty, or property without due process.

    Amendment XIV
    (section 1)
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.[/I]

    Each amendment is in place to protect the other according to the NRA, I think there is alot of truth to that statement. I think that it's a little bit of a stretche using this amendment to protect the 2nd, but I have heard someone else a little more articulate than me do it and do well.
  14. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Are carry permits a violation of the 2nd Amendment? Absolutely. I've got a permit. I can carry a gun anywhere I want to, in the state of Florida. Except for the dozen or so types of places that are off limits. You know, bars, government buildings, airports, schools. To get this permit, originally, cost me about 200 dollars. There was the permit fee itself, plus the cost for the fingerprint check (that was only for the first permit - not for renewals) plus the cost of the training class, plus the cost of the picture, and it was good for a whole three years. When I renewed, I think it was only 67 dollars. Still three years. Next renewal it had bumped to 5 years. This last time it had dropped to 62 dollars, and had increased to 7 years. So my permit has cost me about 500 dollars over the last eleven years. What if I had not had the extra 500 dollars to spend? Couldn't have got a permit. Couldn't have legally carried a gun. Sounds like an impediment to me. An infringement.

    >I think that it is a good safety for our public servants, that the mentally illl and convicted felons cannot carry, and having that permit is showing the police that, you are a responsible citizen.< I must have an edited copy of the Constitution. Mine does not say, "...the right of the responsible people, except for the mentally ill and convicted felons, to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". Mine says "the people". That means everybody, regardless of age, sex, race, color, sexual orientation, religion, political party, criminal record, or mental capability.

    You know, if Uncle Charlie, who has Alzheimer's, and thinks it is 1948, and really wants to vote for Dewey, shows up at the polls, and has a valid voter registration, they are going to let him vote. Why? IT'S HIS RIGHT. It's not a privilege. It's a right. Rights are not dependent upon anything. A right is a right. And it's Uncle Charlie's right to own a gun. His family might decide they need to take it away from him for safety's sake (like they took away his driver's license), but it's none of the government's business.

    >i dont mind paying for it. i dont want some ahole in the media saying i got something for nothing.< I mind. To hell with the media. Do you have to pay for your right to go to church? For your right to vote? For your right to not have the police kick your door in and search your house just because they are bored? So why should you have to pay for the right to carry a gun?

    >But that piece of paper you show a Policeman when you get pulled over tells the Policeman, yes I am armed but I am a lawabiding citizen.< The piece of paper (actually, in Florida it is plastic) that I show a policeman when I get pulled over tells him I have legal permission to drive an automobile. Why would I show him my carry permit? It is not germane to my running a stop sign. Now, I know some states require showing it (whether you have your gun with your or not), and some states require you to tell the cop if you are armed. Fortunately, Florida is not one of them.
  15. OBrien

    OBrien New Member

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    Very, very well put Alpo.
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