Baby Eagles?

Discussion in 'Centerfire Pistols & Revolvers' started by TTUshooter, Dec 25, 2006.

  1. TTUshooter

    TTUshooter New Member

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    Hey everyone, Just curious to get peoples thoughts on the Magnum Research Baby Eagle. I've been pondering buying one pretty much just as a range gun (as all my handguns are cause i dont have a CCW, except for my 1911 which is in my nightstand). A buddy of mine had one in .40 and he liked it and the limited number of times i shot it, i enjoyed it. i've seen very little discussion about these firearms and i just wanted to see what everyone here thinks of them
  2. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    I have heard mixed reviews on them They are a good gun, If it fits you hand I would say get it
  3. ironsight65

    ironsight65 New Member

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    I am glad you started this thread because I would like the hear
    other's experiences with them also. I have wanted one for quite a while
    just haven't gotten around to getting one yet. I have always liked
    the look and feel of them but have not fired one.
  4. Ursus

    Ursus Active Member

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    I've found them accurate an reliable. There are good performers, but nothing spectacular,either
  5. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    If memory servers me correctly the Baby Desert Eagles are Italian made CZ75 clones made for Magnum Reasearch with external physical changes to make it look more like the full sized Derert Eagles. I have had mixed results with the two Italian clones of CZ that I have had over the years. Both were Tanfoglio (spelling??) made. The first was a TZ75 which destroyed it own slide such that the gun was a total loss as the distributor went out of business. The second was an EAA imported gun from the same Italian manufacturer (made at least 10 years later) that has been a good gun with no problems. Both these guns were purchased when CZ's could not legally be imported to the USA. But guess what? CZ can now be imported (for about 10 years), have a great factory owned destributor, are well made, accurate, reliable, more gun for less money than any other pistol I have seen, and are much better made guns than the Italian clones.

    The bottom line is why buy a CZ clone when you can get the real thing. It is not, to the best of my knowledge, anything more than a CZ clone with Desert Eagles name on the slide. If it were a scaled down Desert Eagle in looks and mechanism it would be worth it but it looks like a CZ, functions like a CZ but is not made by CZ or Magnum Research for that matter.

    Anyone know anything different than what I said above? My info is perhaps five years old but I think it to be acurate.

    LDBennett
  6. Ursus

    Ursus Active Member

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    Well, Baby Eagles are not exactly clones of the CZ, altough they are certainly based on the CZ design. Remember CZ 75s are SA/DA, while B.E. are traditional DA. The B.E. is also known as the Jericho.(Other than the U.S.A. I think) and it was (or is?) the issue gun of the Israeli Armed Forces.
    That's a pretty good endorsment to them.
  7. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Ursus:

    My information is that the Israeli's have there own version that is not made in Italy. They pretty much insist on everything military that they have being made in their home country so that their military can not be held hostage by other nations for arms.

    (That is not always true as I worked on a radar defense system from Hughes Aircraft, built in the USA, but they had on sight resident hardware and software engineers and technician with us during the entire design and build cycle and took home the ability to do everything imaginable to support it. They tried to get our microprocessor programming too but Hughes refused them on that so they probably reverse engineered it. They had the abilities, that's for sure.)

    The point was why buy a phony Desert Eagle? Or for that matter why buy a CZ clone (or functional copy) when you can have the real thing from CZ-USA. Or even more to the point, why buy a phony Desert Eagle that is a clone of a real CZ.

    LDBennett
  8. Ursus

    Ursus Active Member

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    That gun would be the Jericho, and it is the version sold here, made in Israel. And it is not a clone or a copy of the CZ 75. This gun (CZ) allows a cocked an locked carry and a hammer down carry for a DA first shot. You have to manually lower the hammer has the safety is just that; it´s not a decocker. The Jericho, on the other hand, do have a decocker; it's a traditional DA like the Berreta 92 F or S&W mod 59s. It is certainly based on the CZ design, but it is not a copy or a clone.
  9. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Ursus:

    When the internal design can be recognised as a copy of the CZ and when the external shape for the gun is close to that of the CZ, it may not be a true clone but the design is definitely based on the CZ and NOT the Desert Eagle as the name of the gun implies. The gun belongs in the CZ lineup of gun evolution, not as a little version of the Desert Eagle. I think it a slap in the face for Magnum Research to imply a design link between their truly unique Desert Eagle and a copy of the fabulous CZ75.

    As for operation difference, those are easy to make by simple changes to the CZ trigger group. You can have DA only, or SA only, or DA first shot and SA for subsequent shots, all with simple mods to the trigger group CZ designed in the 1970's. As for Safety operations, that also just requires moving the safety around on the frame of the gun or onto the slide (as the Baby did and as the TZ75 from Italy did). You still have a CZ copy with mods and not a mini Desert Eagle.

    While I agree the Baby is not a true clone it certainly belongs to the CZ "copy" evolution of guns from the Czech Republic, Israel, Italy, and Switzerland (that version was supposedly the best copy) NOT as a mini version of the Desert Eagle. It may be a fine gun but the implication of the link to a real Desert Eagle urks me to no end.

    I do not hate CZ's as I have several real ones and clones and they are some of my favorite guns but the Baby is completely mis-named! I think the Desert Eagle unique and would like to have one but for the high price. The Baby is neither unique or a true Desert Eagle design. It may be an excellent gun with features that attrack you but it is not a Desert Eagle design at all. It is a retread of a CZ design. Now if MR would bring out a mini Desert Eagle I'd get one of them for sure!

    Sorry for the contraversy I have created but I hate what MR has done and hate that they think gun buyer so dumb as to not recognise the Baby for what it really is: a CZ copy (OK, not a clone).


    LDBennett
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2006
  10. Ursus

    Ursus Active Member

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    If you are saying that the B.E. (Jericho) design it's very much closer to the CZ than to the D.E. I am in a complete agreement with you. I think that your definition of th B.E. as an evolutionized copy of the CZ is quite correct.
    And you don't have to be sorry for creating a discussion. That's what this forum is all about.
    Evolutionized copy!:)
    P.D. Around here they are not B.E. they're named Jerichos, and you're rigth about M.R. trying to confuse the gun buying public in the U.S.A. Nice interchange, pal!!
  11. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Ursus:

    "If you are saying that the B.E. (Jericho) design it's very much closer to the CZ than to the D.E. I am in a complete agreement with you."

    The CZ and its copies including the Jerico (BE) are recoil operated while I believe the Desert eagle is gas operated. Off hand I can not think of another gas operated pistol currently in production. That's unique! There can not be any greater difference than that!

    Glad that you are not offended. Have a nice day!

    LDBennett
  12. TTUshooter

    TTUshooter New Member

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    well hey LD and ursus, with all discussion about if it is a evolutionized copy or not, what do you guys think about the gun as a shooter? I know that the B.E. and D.E. are pretty much nothing alike except that they are advertized for by the same company. My original intent of the post was just to get peoples opinions on how they were as guns. (although i must admit i did not know that the B.E. operated as closely as it does to a CZ). You guys know much more than i do about these things, so if I may say so, put the discussion of weather the B.E. is bastardizing the good name of the D.E. aside and let me know what you guys think of them.
  13. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    TTUshooter:

    It looks like a CZ, is made like a CZ so why buy the copy? Get the real thing, a CZ.

    They are indeed the most pistol for the least amount of money. I have several pistols both clones and real ones, several of the CZ rifles from 17HM2 to 30-06 and all the rifles are good too. CZ is the most under rated firearms company out there. That may be because they have been available for only about 10 years here in the USA (Czech made Iron curtain embargo'ed until about 1997). Take a look at their different models and you'll be impressed, I would guess. And the pricing is good too. There are made CAD/CAM (modern manufacturing techniques), most have hammer forged barrels, the fit and finish are typical European, which is very good indeed.

    Ask a CZ nut and that is the kid of answer you get but I am not that far from other CZ owners. CZ has a very loyal following. I don't even know anyone that has even considered the MR Baby Desert Eagle let alone bought one. I know a lot of people with CZ's and have not heard a disparaging word yet from them.


    LDBennett
  14. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

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    My wife owns a CZ75BD, which is the version with the decocker.

    Great gun. Reliable, well-made and easy to clean. Great price, too.
  15. jacho

    jacho New Member

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    I've owned a 9mm BE and a pre B CZ-75. As a shooter, I really liked the pistol. It offers a chrome lined barrel from the factory. Mine had a 'standard' rifled barrel but I believe they come with polygonal rifled barrels. It had a fantastic trigger out of the box and was quite accurate. It's a 'heavy' pistol for its size but this helps tame recoil and muzzle flip. I wasn't too keen on the finish as it seemed 'thin' but I didn't own it long enough to see how it'd really stand up over time. I put about 2000 trouble free rounds through mine before selling it. The only caveats I have about this pistol is that some of the roll pins drift out on them. On mine, it was the roll pin above the trigger, on a friend's, it was a roll pin inside the frame. A little loc-tite will solve the problem but it makes me wonder why a 'military' issue firearm would have roll pins drifting out on them. The roll pin issued has been echoed in other forums as well. I've owned a CZ-75 as well and if I were considering the two, CZ or Baby Eagle, I'd have to go to the CZ. Accessories and parts are readily available for it and my CZ never had any pins drift out from shooting it....
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