Ballester Molina or system 27....

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member

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    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 695
    (6/2/01 8:51:01 pm)
    Reply Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    Anybody have any experience with any of these clones? How do they stack up with a real 1911? I heard one or the other may be able to interchange parts with a Colt, which one if any? (Specifically triggers, sears, disconnectors, safeties, bushings and mags.)

    SOG has BMs for $195 and 27s for like $295, and they are both CR.

    If they run them on a monthly special soon I may pick one up...

    tuckerd1
    Member
    Posts: 104
    (6/2/01 9:31:57 pm)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    Polish, I'm not familiar with either of these, but if you have link where I can go read about them, I'm interested.

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 352
    (6/2/01 10:38:41 pm)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    I'm not familiar with the BM, but many of the M1927's were made in Hartford. The rest were made on Colt machinery, to Colt specs in Argentina and are part-for-part interchangeable with the Colts. The only differance, I believe, is that the Argentine made ones were slide numbered instead of frame numbered.

    The ones I've seen were nicely made and nicely finished. If these are in decent condition, they should be fine shooters.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 703
    (6/2/01 11:16:34 pm)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    Tuckerd, I don't have a link, just one for SOG that has them www.southernohiogun.com

    X, they are listed as "Excellent." The BMs are "good condition with worn original finish."

    Are the Ballesters Spanish?

    I thought I saw 27s somewhere else cheaper not that long ago...



    AntiqueDr
    Moderator
    Posts: 265
    (6/3/01 6:39:36 am)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    These are actually three distinct pistols:

    The Model 1927 is a direct copy of the M1911A1 and the parts will interchange with some fitting (more or less). The first 10,000 pistols were made in Hartford by Colt for the Argentine government and were marked "Model 1927" on the right side of the slide. The Argentinian government marked the external serial number on the slide. The Colt-marked serial number can be found under the mainspring housing, and they should match. Beginning in 1927, the guns were made in Argentina by DGFM-FMAP and are so marked.

    The Ballester-Molina is another Argentine-made copy, but it is NOT a true replica. The trigger is pinned instead of sliding, no grip safety, has a different type of sear, so forth. This is believed to have been an unauthorized copy, made from just prior to WW2 to the mid-40's.

    Depending on how much wear the finish has on SOG's gun, that looks like a pretty good price. Would much rather have the '27 than the BM (pun intended).


    Purveyor of Fine Firearms to the Enlightened Few
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    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 706
    (6/3/01 10:49:13 am)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    So Doc, which "Systema 27" do you think SOG has?

    And am I right that I think I've seen them somewhere in the last 6 months for somewhere in the $200-250 range?

    Tac401
    Administrator
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    (6/3/01 2:55:37 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    PS,

    More than likely from what I see SOG has the DGFM-FMAP
    version which is still a fine pistol due to the fact that they
    had the Colt machinery down there while they were making
    them so even though these "27's" were made in Argentina
    they were actually made on original Colt machinery to my
    understanding.
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    AntiqueDr
    Moderator
    Posts: 266
    (6/3/01 9:22:40 pm)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    Agreed.
    Purveyor of Fine Firearms to the Enlightened Few
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 357
    (6/3/01 10:33:43 pm)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    Polish......if these '27s are truely "excellent", I'd say that's a very good price.

    The Argentine made '27s I've seen, looked, handled, and shot as well as the typical Colt made ones of the same period.

    If you want a nice "shooter", or even a nice M1911A1 for customizing, I don't think you can go too wrong at that price.

    gun runner john
    Registered User
    Posts: 5
    (7/7/01 4:35:25 pm)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    FWIW, I picked up one of the 1927's from cruffler.com, and for $299 I got an arsenal refinished pistol that basically looks like new. The barrel was brand new, even though it had a matching serial number to the gun. It's one of the last remaining 1911 pattern bargains.


    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1086
    (7/7/01 8:49:56 pm)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    Welcome, John.

    Let me know how it shoots.

    gun runner john
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (7/8/01 2:34:30 pm)
    Reply Re: Ballester Molina or Systema 27...
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    My 1927 shoots just fine, although the sights are a bit small for my tastes. My eyes aren't as young as they used to be, and I've taken to larger sights, mostly with white dots nowadays, and that's if I don't mount optics. Most of the rifles I shoot routinely have some sort of optical sight, be it a 'scope or a red dot, or a halosight.

    I still think the 1927 is one of the better firearms bargains, a 100% 1911 compatible in excellent shape for $299.
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