Barrel Fowling

Discussion in 'Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns' started by madc0w2000, Jul 16, 2007.

  1. madc0w2000

    madc0w2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Bremerton, Wasington
    My new Cableas .50 cal hawken

    I have several questions that if someone could answer would be great! It has a 1:48 twist and I understand I can use conicals in it, but could I use also sabot rounds? I have also read that some people use FFF and others use just FF powder, which size would you recommend and at what grain would you start off with to sight it in? I am planning to use Great Plains 385Gr conicals. I am thinking of using Tripple 7 because it suppose to keep fouling down.

    I have Winchester X-150 .50 cal and loved shooting them, but thought to try my hand at a hammer since it seems that more states are banning inlines.

    Thanks for you help.

    I merged these two threads at Mad's request. It makes more sense this way - Pops
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2007
  2. madc0w2000

    madc0w2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Bremerton, Wasington
    Cableas .50 cal Hawken

    I have a couple of questions if someone could help me out. I have searched the web for information on loading it and what I can shoot and quite frankly, I am totally confussed!! I have a Winchester X-150 .50 cal so I know how to shoot that with pellets, but this something totally different to me.

    Since the barrel has a 1:48 twist to it I understand I can shoot conicals, but can I shoot sabots? I see some peopel use FFF and some use FF powder. I want to use Tripple 7 since it seems to be the least fouling, is this a good powder to use and how much to start off with? I am planning to use Great Plains 385gr conicals for deer, elk and hopefully bear.

    Thank you for your help.
  3. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    I had one of the Cabella's Hawkins.The operative word here is "had," as my granddaughter got her hands on it. :D

    The sabots will present no problem with that barrel. Try round balls, conicals of several sizes, PowerBelts and sabots. One type/weight will shoot better than the others. The roundball has plenty of energy to down deer at reasonable ranges (~100 yards.) The others have better ranges, and potentially, better accuracy. Mine shot deer-accuracy with the PowerBelts. I am not allowed to use sabots here in this state for hunting, so havent tried them.

    I consider the .50 to be a 'tweener in powder reguirements. I use FFFg for round ball and FFg for the heavier bullets. MY theory is that the lighter bullet does better with the faster powder and the heavier ones like the slower grind.

    Again, shoot some with the FFFg and some with the FFg to find out which your rifle likes best.

    Aw, shucks! You are going to have to go shoot that thing. :D

    Pops
  4. madc0w2000

    madc0w2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Bremerton, Wasington
    Thanks Pops for your response!!! I live over here in Bremerton, across the water from Seattle. I went to the side hammer because I am hearing more states banning inlines, so I thought I better jump on the wagon. It comes in tommorrow and I am SOOOOOOO excited.
  5. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    WARNING!!!!!!! "Shootin' Dirty" is addictive! :D

    Pops
  6. madc0w2000

    madc0w2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Bremerton, Wasington
    I know!! Wife wants to go bear hunting next month, think I'll take "O betsy" with me!!!!!!!
  7. madc0w2000

    madc0w2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Bremerton, Wasington
    I finally got the Hawkins this past Friday, beautiful looking gun. In the manual it says the max powder rating for a 385gr conical using pyrodex is 64 grains. That seems light to me, I have used 100gr of pyrodex pellets in the inlines with no problem. Can I go above 64gr in the hawkens or can it not withstand it? I am planning to use Great Plains 385gr conicals for hunting and I still got to take her out and shoot it, but am looking for a starting point and max point of powder to use.

    thank you for your help.
  8. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    That seems very low to me, also. I don't shoot that heavy a bullet, but I'm accustomed to using 90-100gr under my ~250gr conicals. Do a look up and see what Remington has to say about that, as (I believe) their rifles are made by the same company.

    Pops
  9. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    From T/C page:
    http://hunting.about.com/od/blackpowder/a/tcrifleloads.htm
    Note the 370gr load is up to 100gr powder.

    Pops
  10. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    Goex generic data for that sixe bullet says 50 to 100 grains.

    Hodgon data:
    Hodgdons loose powder chart:
    (Spacing is funny on this cut'n'paste, but note that it goes up to 100gr.)

    Hope that helps.

    Pops
  11. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,078
    Location:
    Indiana
    Madcow, my son and I have been having good luck for years shooting the Buffalo Ballet from his CVA caplock .50 Hawken Carbine with 95 grains of FFFg...it's 245 gr and acts like a Minie ball...gives nice accuracy at 100 and doesn't recoil like the 300+gr balls do...he got his first buck with it when he was 13, dropped it cleanly.

    I was originally looking for a "light" load for him when we built it a year earlier, but it shoots so nicely, that's all we ever use in it. (I "borrow" it when it's too wet out for my flintlock...:p ) It loads easily, prelubed, no patch needed, just ram it home on top the powder charge.

    I've never chronographed it, but I'd have to guess we are pushing 1600-1700 fps from that shorter barrel, and it's more "flat" shooting than a heavier bullet....and his is 1:48 too.


    One thing about blackpowder shooting, is don't overload it, and make sure you try the smaller loads and work up...not necessarily for safety, but for accuracy....most of them shoot much more accurately with lesser loads, and you will still have plenty of power. Guys get really aggressive stuffing powder down their smokepoles to get "power" thinking more is better and many times are defeating the purpose


    Most "Frontiersmen" took a lot of deer, bear and elk, in Kentucky in the late 1700s and early 1800s, with only about 40 grains of powder behind at most .40 caliber ball....to save lead and powder! My 65gr behind a roundball I use in my .45 flintlock would have been considered a HEAVY load back then...

    Plus be sure to shoot it over fresh snow when you get to your "max" load, it can be an eye opener...if you see "pepper" in front of you, you might as well reduce the load to save powder, you sure as heck aren't BURNING it all...
  12. madc0w2000

    madc0w2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Bremerton, Wasington
    Thank you one and all!!!! The information you have given me is a wealth of knowledge!! Very anxious to take it out and get it bloody!!!:)
  13. Millwright

    Millwright Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,759
    All this chatter about BP guns with sabots and such - sheesh !!

    A 1:48" twist ain't a "compromise" its plain bad for ball - as is modern rifling. Its too wide and deep. Patch and ball requires a slow twist 1:60 is good but with a shallow cut narrow rifling the patch can seal easily. Oldtimers used to have the rifling recut when accuracy dropped off. This sort of rifling doesn't foul as much, either...... >MW
  14. madc0w2000

    madc0w2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Bremerton, Wasington
    Been looking at a replacement barrel, 32" with a 1:60 twist to it. Have read where a 1:28 twist is great for sabot and conicals. Was hoping that the 1:48 twist would be a perfect inbetween twist. :(
  15. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    Rifling of 1:48" is a compromise for hunting accuracy. If you are hunting deer//elk/moose your accuracy doesn't need to be as tight as if you are hunting gnats. Like all compromises, it is not the best, but it gets the job done. that twist will give you 1.5 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards. Playing with loads and patchs can tighten groups. Getting more power at the expense of missing the animal doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but many shooters don't think of that part of the equation.

    Pops
  16. madc0w2000

    madc0w2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Bremerton, Wasington
    That is one thing I have noticed reading the forums, that power is not everything. In fact, I saw on one forum a formula that you use to show you the maximum amount of powder that you can put in a BL that will be COMPLETELY burned before exiting the muzzle. With mine being a 28" barrel, the formula says that anything over 63Gr of BP will be just blown out the barrel. So I can see there is ALOT of experimenting to do, but once you get her dialed in, I truely believe that she can stand up to a modern firearm using iron sights at 100yds!!

    Can not say thank you enough times for the help I have recieved from this forum!!!
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns Dugard double barrel Dec 9, 2013
Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns Blued barrel turned brown??? Oct 1, 2013
Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns Early T/C Hawken Barrel Makers? Aug 10, 2013
Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns Barrel cyl gap in BP revolvers Feb 8, 2013
Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns Is it okay to shoot shot from a rifled barrel? Jan 20, 2013