....because they want the police to be enforcers not protectors

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jlloyd73, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. jlloyd73

    jlloyd73 New Member

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  2. raven818

    raven818 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    This is an isolated incident. I would be surprised if you ever heard of it happening again anywhere in this country.

    To accuse / imply that officers are not on the streets to help those who need their help, is inaccurate. The moment he/she puts on their uniform, and walks out the door of their home, they are a target.

    And, being at home guarantees no officer safety. Having a 24 hour car at your disposal means you are a target 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

    Personal experience...having my 30th birthday party at home, lots of cops and their wives were there. We ran out of beer. A fellow officer, in better shape than anybody else offered to go and get some more.

    It was winter, he had gotten a ride to my home with another officer. I loaned him my jacket, my helmet and my motorcycle ( no police markings on any of it ).

    He got on the bike, and started out of the driveway. All of us in the house heard a shotgun go off.

    We ran out, the officer and my bike were down. They had missed him, got the side of my house instead.

    To suggest our supervisors order us to ignore those in need, is out of line.

    There are a lot more thugs being killed today. The reason why is simple. They will kill you if you don't fire back ( if you're lucky enough to be able too ). They are armed with weapons that were only science fiction a few years ago. AR 15's, AK's, semi and fully automatic.

    Every person who chooses to pursue a vocation in law enforcement knows what they are facing up-front, and do so with the possibility of not going home after a shift, foremost in the back of their mind. And they do it anyway.

    They are not there to enforce...they are there to Protect And Serve.
  3. Blackshirts

    Blackshirts Active Member

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    Looks more like an effort to not pay him than a "don't help people" issue. No big surprise. The history of the government not wanting to pay public officers/military their dues isn't new.
  4. jlloyd73

    jlloyd73 New Member

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    I disagree..........I guess they need all those military type rifles to protect me or the general citizen???? No!!!! They are to protect themselves and to enforce........

    How can they protect me or you when a majority of time they don't get to a scene until well after an event happens (murder, rape, robbery....etc)????

    I know and have known many police officers......some are great people.....some only use their uniforms to chase women, but they all will tell you that they cannot protect you........to protect yourself.

    BTW, I am not trying to dispute the integrity of any officer..........but the system that our governments (city, state, and federal) have put in place.........all these laws they put in place to help us only help the criminals in most cases....they penalize the 90% of honest law abiding citizens because of the 10% or so they will never follow the law. The system wants full control......and they are getting closer to it every day...
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
  5. Diamondback

    Diamondback Active Member

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    I have a great deal of respect for any one who becomes a law enforcement officer. However, according to the supreme court and others the citizens of the United States and the individual states themselves have no right to expect police protection during the commission of a crime. The law enforcement organizations have no legal duty to respond and prevent crime or protect the victim.
    Despite the efforts of individual officers, you have no legal recourse if law enforcement declines to respond to you call for help. You and you alone are responsible for you personal protection.

    Please check out the following: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1976377/posts
  6. Gun Geezer

    Gun Geezer Active Member

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    For this reason alone, I cannot see how a state, county or any jurisdiction can lawfully deny a citizen the right of self-protection and the tools he/she needs to accomplish that right.
  7. jstgsn

    jstgsn Well-Known Member

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    It's not really because they want them to be enforcerers, it's because they would rather spend their money buying votes, not protecting the citizens. I was in law enforcement and security my entire life. WPD for twenty, Chief of Security/Safety for the Wilmington Housing Authority for ten, and ever since as a Private Detective. Gun Geezer is right, for the government to deny one's right to self defense is a crime in itself. As a PO I only came upon a handful of crimes in progress that I had not been dispatched to. It is up to you to protect yourself and your loved ones. Here are a few thoughts I have about how to protect you and yours.
    I’ll start with this. Whatever firearm you choose, it won’t help you if an intruder can get into your home without you knowing it. Being able to force a door or window quietly because it isn’t secured properly will result in someone standing by your bed while you sleep. You can have a hand cannon in your nightstand, but if you are asleep, it won't help.
    I’ll start with the outside. If your home is just off the street, make sure you don’t have shrubs etc blocking the street view of you windows or door. Often criminals will use those shrubs to hide while they work on breaking in, or lay in wait for you to come up to the door. Make sure your house number is highly visible from the street so emergency responders can easily find your home. If you have a back alley, number the house there too.
    Place motion activated lights around the home. They have decorative fixtures with motion detector capability as well as spot lights for the back of the home. Yes a deer or raccoon will trip the lights, but so what, they only stay on for as long as you set them to stay on, and then go off until tripped again.
    We have a long driveway, so I went to Harbor Freight and bought two $20 motion sensors. They are battery operated and the detector is mounted to a post by the driveway, and one by the back of the house. One sounding device sits in the living room, the other by the back door. When someone enters the driveway, the alarm gives a ding dong sound. If they get near the house, the other sounds. Again deer and raccoons will set it off, but I don’t mind watching them too.
    For the doors, have a locksmith key all the doors alike. Then unscrew the strike plate screws and make sure they are long enough to go into the 2X4 in the wall, not just the pine door frame. If there is glass surrounding the door, have double cylinder dead bolts installed, but keep an extra key hidden near the door in addition to your regular keys. Solid doors should have a 180  peep hole so you can see who is knocking before unlocking. With the screws going into the wall itself, not just the frame, if they kick the door in, you’ll hear them.
    Windows need to have an additional locking system other than the butterfly lock. You should be able to secure the windows when they are closed and/or when they are partially open.
    The inside should have lights on timers. There should be a good gun safe for guns and jewelry.
    One other thing is to mark your property with your driver’s license . The state initials and the numbers will allow officials to find your name, age, address and so forth. If you can find stickers that indicate “Operation Identification” for your windows they help.
    If you trust your neighbors, work with them. Be suspicious of traveling salesmen and so forth, and don’t hesitate to report suspicious activity.
    When you call the police, remember, they don’t know what is going on until you tell them and they need the information in order. Your name, your location, phone number, why you are calling, what you think is going to happen. If it is happening right now, tell them “IN PROGRESS”. Be patient and stay on the phone until they tell you to hang up.
    Make sure the family has a plan for fire and intrusion, and practice.
    There is no one answer to crime, but using a combined package or system perspective where all the units work together can make the bad guys go somewhere easier.
    Last but not least; I have an alarm system installed that not only monitors doors and motion, but a smoke detector. When we are not home, or the wife is home alone, it is comforting.
    Now back to weapon of choice. I’m in my 60s, retired police, and an avid hunter. My choice of weapon for home defense is a youth model pump action 20 gauge loaded with five rounds of 4 buck. It cost $227 at Wal-Mart. It has a devastating effect within 30 yards, handles easily in a hallway, EVERYONE recognizes the sound of a shotgun chambering a round, and you don’t have to aim, just point and shoot. As a plus I have used it to hunt everything from doves to deer. (Took a nice doe with it this year.)
    For CCDW I have a Glock .40 in model 27 and a Ruger LCP in .380. Both conceal nicely. Of course I also have 2” and 4” S&W revolvers in .38/357.
    I also have flashlights everywhere in the house.
    Nothing against .22s, but we shot a guy six times with .38 lead bullets and he ran 12 blocks.
    Everyone in the house needs to have gun safety training. Period. They make small safes for home and car, use them.
    Remember the rules of gun fights.
    Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
    Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
    Only hits count. A close miss is still a miss.
    If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly, and you have been there way too long.
    Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movements are preferred.)
    If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and all your friends with long guns.
    In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics.
    If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
    Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
    Use a gun that works EVERY TIME.
    Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
    Always cheat = always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
    Have two plans. The original plan, and then a back-up plan, because the original plan never works.
    Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
    Don't drop your guard.
    Always tactically reload and threat scan 360 degrees.
    Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).
    Decide to be AGGRESSIVE enough, QUICKLY enough.
    The faster you finish the fight, the less shot up you will get.
  8. The Duke

    The Duke New Member

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    I remember few if any serious crimes occuring while I was present and in uniform...I did snag several idiots while off duty and dressed in civies.....

    If everyone could be assigned their own personal cop 24 hours aday, the world would be a safer place...Stupid as they are, few crminals will commit a crime with an officer looking over his shoulder...However having your own personal cop at taxpayer dollar isnt really feasible...Anyone who thinks the police can be there strickly for them and to protect them and their family 24/7doesnt live in the real world....Maybe they would be happier with "Big Brother" and a zillion cameras looking at everybody and everything 24/7...

    BTW...the memo stating the attempt to save a childs life by the officer was not in the scope of his duties was written by a city attorney...who was more obviously concerned with the 'sue one, sue all' atmosphere that seems to prevail in this country of Tort lawyers...He didnt have a clue what the officers responsibility was...

    Think about the child as being your child...Would you want the cop to do everything in his power to save your child or stand there and tell you its not in his job description???...Give the cop a medal and fire the idiot who wrote the memo.
  9. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    Yeah, the way I read this was the cop was the good guy, most are IMO. The problem here is the city not being willing to back up ite police officers. I think 99% of the cops around the country would have done exactly what this man did, at least I hope so. It's rather depressing to even think that his own city government would refuse to back him 100% in the event he ever requires assistance. Note that he has NOT applied for any kind of help, medical or financial, but the city is already willing to tell him "No, you're on your own." Kind of a slap in the face to every good, serving officer.
  10. Prizefighter

    Prizefighter New Member

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    North Carolina
    Yep, medal for the cop (and some paid time off for goodness sake), pink slip for the bureaucrats who sent the memo.
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