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Belgian Browning Identification

160K views 12 replies 11 participants last post by  gdmoody 
#1 ·
BlackGun
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Posts: 3612
(4/1/02 5:06:30 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del All Identifing a Belgium Browning
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The bride calls me on the cell phone from a garage sale asking if I want a Belgium Browning 20Ga. Semi Auto Shotgun. We chat about the condition as she describes it to me. I asked her to look on the barrel and see if the word Belgium appeared she said NO all it had was "Browning Arms Co. St Louis Mo." and (BP) in a circle. I had her ask the seller how they identified it as a Belgium and the man said "cause I told you so" She sat the gun down and walked away! which is less than what I would have done. Anyway how do we identify a Belgium Browning in the future if it's not written in the barrel in English.
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warpig883
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Posts: 2956
(4/1/02 7:08:41 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
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I was in a gun store today looking at 20 gauge A-5's. All the ones there either said made in Japan or made in herstal belgium on them. Some of the Belgium ones were in big letters on the left side of the reciever and some in small letters in the barrel.

I need a A-5 light 20 with choke tubes. This would be a Japan one as none of the Belgium light 20's came with choke tubes as far as I can tell.

AntiqueDr
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Posts: 2385
(4/2/02 9:55:50 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
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You sure it was an A5 and not a B2000?

I believe she should have looked on the other side of the barrel.

How much??? Is it still available???
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a81492
Member
Posts: 17
(4/3/02 10:33:19 am)
Reply | Edit | Del proof is in the .............. bottle? :\
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BlackGun,

Country of origin is normally rollstamped (sometimes in tiny little fine print character thingys) on barrel. Could be on R or L side.

Lacking hands-on visuals & rollstamped origins, probably the most foolproof way to ID these critters is by Proofmarks & S/N's. Believe Belgian production ceased in '76 or so - made in Japan & Portugal after that (& possibly Canada?) at least on some models of longarms. Either way, should be visible on bbl, no matter how miniscule the print.

best,
joey

reedbuster
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Posts: 413
(4/8/02 1:34:54 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: proof is in the .............. bottle? :\
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Shoot Blackgun,
I wish I would have seen this post earlier. Anyway, you can date a gun per the serial no. at Browning.com, Made in Belgium will be stamped on the barrel. Here is the kicker, lots were made in Belgium but assembled in Portugal so they will say 'made in Belgium Assembled in Portugal' and the like. On all the A5's that where made and assembled in Belgium the butt plate has he distinctive FN 'fabrique national' logo and the barrel will only say Made in Belgium. I would have to research the other proofs but usually the butt plate is a good first indicator.

Quack,
Reedbuster

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whitebear74
Member
Posts: 6
(4/9/02 8:50:37 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
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Info I have says Browning used the barrel address of "St.Louis. Missouri" from 1952 to 1958
"St Louis , Missouri and Montreal, P.Q." from 1959 to1968
"Morgan, Utah and Montreal, P.Q." from 1969 to 1975
1976 and up were made by Miroku of Japan.

I've got a 1958 A-5 Light Twelve & barrel says : on left -Browning Arms Co. St. Louis, Mo. ** special steel 12 Ga.shells 2 3/4" C12-70
ELG, & PV Belgian proof mark and a few others. The serial number on barrel matches receiver.
on right side- Made in Belgium
Receiver has Belgian PV proof mark below the ejection port.
Buttstock has a " round knob" pistol grip and a FN buttplate. Info says they changed to a "flat knob" pistol grip in 1967.
I have a Buck Special barrel also with : left side- Fabrique Nationale Herstal Belgique ***Acier Special -C12- Cart 2 3/4" & various proof marks
right side- Browning Arms Company Morgan,Utah & Montreal, P.Q. Made in Belgium
stars **** are choke code
C12-70 is European designation for 12 ga. 2 3/4'' chamber. Hope that helps.

AntiqueDr
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 2429
(4/9/02 11:22:49 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
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That applies to Auto-5 shotguns.

I am willing to bet that the (BP) is actually (PB), which makes it a B-2000 (made by Beretta for Browning).

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whitebear74
Member
Posts: 10
(4/10/02 10:56:15 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
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If it were a B-2000 would not the barrel address be Morgan , Utah & Montreal PQ instead of St. Louis , Missouri for first 2 years of production ???? From 1976 up what are they marked- Salt Lake City or Ogden, Utah ?

B-2000's in 12 & 20 ga.- parts made in Belgium but assembled in Portugal, approx 115,000 imported to US between 1974 -1983.
BP = Browning Portugal? I don't know, but there is still the matter of the address on the barrel.

Edited by: whitebear74 at: 4/10/02 12:53:56 pm

AntiqueDr
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 2430
(4/10/02 1:45:31 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
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I misspoke. The Browning B-80 was manufactured by Beretta and bears the Beretta proof on the barrel.

That Beretta proof is the closest I can recall to what was described.
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warpig883
*TFF Staff*
Posts: 3075
(4/10/02 4:48:02 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
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Were the A-500G or A-500R ever made in Belgium?

AntiqueDr
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 2432
(4/10/02 5:21:21 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
ezSupporter
Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
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Parts manufactured in Belgium, fit/assembled in Portugal.

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#2 · (Edited)
Sorry to re open an old thread, but I have an identification question.

I have a Browning A-5 round knob, with Made in Belgium on the barrel.
It has the barrel address of Browning Arms Co. St. Louis, Mo.
It clearly has the PV stamp on it, has the FN butt plate.
It fits the 1952 to 1958 range except for the serial number.
The serial number is located on the bottom in front of the load port, right?
If so the serial number is 8Z 4469.
If I am looking at the right number, then this serial number does not exist on the Browning Date Your Gun page.

Oh, and it has the marking of ** Special Steel 20 Ga.shells 2 3/4" on the barrel also.
Could sombody provide a full star code list so I know what choke my gun has.

Any help would be appriciated.

Btw I inherited the gun, so it is my only refference point.

Thanks,
Warlock
 
#3 · (Edited)
My books on Brownings are boxed up at the moment,so I will have to use other sources:
My old Blue Book states that from 1958-1976 Brownings were serial numbered with a number first followed by a letter denoting type of gun.
So the "8" would be for 1958 (most likely) or 1968 (probably should be a 68 instead).This must have started sometime late in 1958 (in honor of my birth perhaps? :rolleyes: )
The z would probably denote a Lightweight 20 ga frame.

* Full choke (I have read all the barrels start as full choke and are opened to whatever is wanted)
*- (or one half star) Improved Modified
** Modified
**-(or one half star) Improved Cylinder
**$ Skeet
*** Cylinder

Hope this is correct and helps you.
 
#6 ·
I know this is an old post, but I have a gun just like the one described at the beginning. I can't find "Made in..." anywhere on it but it has the BP in a circle. Serial no is B8108

The person who gave it to me said something about it being made during the war by another gun company & that they only made them for one year.

Anybody know anything about this?
 
#7 ·
I have a belgian made browning light twelve, I have researched it and found that it was made AND assembled in belgian in 1952.

This gun has been through several generations and I was wondering if any of them originally came with a pollychoke on the barrel, because mine has or ''had'' one until it broke off. the barrel seems to be original because it has all of the original matching markings on it. If it is original, where could i go about finding a replacement matching polychoke for it?
 
#9 · (Edited)
Let me try! I have a Browning 12 ga, auto shot gun that I got from my FIL. It was not taken care of, but I want to know more about it. The sr# is located on the bottom in front of the load port, and as best I can make out is a 3, or 8M, with the numbers 11714 below. It has a FN buttstock cap on it. Could care less about the value really, but want to know what it is.
 
#10 ·
Let me try! I have a Browning 12 ga, auto shot gun that I got from my FIL. It was not taken care of, but I want to know more about it. The sr# is located on the bottom in front of the load port, and as best I can make out is a 3, or 8M, with the numbers 11714 below. It has a FN buttstock cap on it. Could care less about the value really, but want to know what it is.
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