Belgian Browning Identification

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by CountryGunsmith, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. CountryGunsmith

    CountryGunsmith New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    5,115
    Location:
    Deep Piney Woods of East Texas
    BlackGun
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3612
    (4/1/02 5:06:30 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del All Identifing a Belgium Browning
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The bride calls me on the cell phone from a garage sale asking if I want a Belgium Browning 20Ga. Semi Auto Shotgun. We chat about the condition as she describes it to me. I asked her to look on the barrel and see if the word Belgium appeared she said NO all it had was "Browning Arms Co. St Louis Mo." and (BP) in a circle. I had her ask the seller how they identified it as a Belgium and the man said "cause I told you so" She sat the gun down and walked away! which is less than what I would have done. Anyway how do we identify a Belgium Browning in the future if it's not written in the barrel in English.
    I suffer from occasional loss of mental stability, and become very violent with only slight provocation. The Veterans Administration has determined that both mental and physical harassment of my person may be hazardous to your health and well being. So stay away from my Donuts!!


    BlackGUN

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2956
    (4/1/02 7:08:41 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I was in a gun store today looking at 20 gauge A-5's. All the ones there either said made in Japan or made in herstal belgium on them. Some of the Belgium ones were in big letters on the left side of the reciever and some in small letters in the barrel.


    I need a A-5 light 20 with choke tubes. This would be a Japan one as none of the Belgium light 20's came with choke tubes as far as I can tell.

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2385
    (4/2/02 9:55:50 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You sure it was an A5 and not a B2000?

    I believe she should have looked on the other side of the barrel.

    How much??? Is it still available???
    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com
    Kimber and Wilson Combat Master Dealer

    a81492
    Member
    Posts: 17
    (4/3/02 10:33:19 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del proof is in the .............. bottle? :\
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    BlackGun,

    Country of origin is normally rollstamped (sometimes in tiny little fine print character thingys) on barrel. Could be on R or L side.

    Lacking hands-on visuals & rollstamped origins, probably the most foolproof way to ID these critters is by Proofmarks & S/N's. Believe Belgian production ceased in '76 or so - made in Japan & Portugal after that (& possibly Canada?) at least on some models of longarms. Either way, should be visible on bbl, no matter how miniscule the print.

    best,
    joey

    reedbuster
    V.I.P. Forum Host
    Posts: 413
    (4/8/02 1:34:54 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: proof is in the .............. bottle? :\
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Shoot Blackgun,
    I wish I would have seen this post earlier. Anyway, you can date a gun per the serial no. at Browning.com, Made in Belgium will be stamped on the barrel. Here is the kicker, lots were made in Belgium but assembled in Portugal so they will say 'made in Belgium Assembled in Portugal' and the like. On all the A5's that where made and assembled in Belgium the butt plate has he distinctive FN 'fabrique national' logo and the barrel will only say Made in Belgium. I would have to research the other proofs but usually the butt plate is a good first indicator.

    Quack,
    Reedbuster










    Is that a jelly donut?
    Browning-The Best There Is.

    whitebear74
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (4/9/02 8:50:37 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Info I have says Browning used the barrel address of "St.Louis. Missouri" from 1952 to 1958
    "St Louis , Missouri and Montreal, P.Q." from 1959 to1968
    "Morgan, Utah and Montreal, P.Q." from 1969 to 1975
    1976 and up were made by Miroku of Japan.

    I've got a 1958 A-5 Light Twelve & barrel says : on left -Browning Arms Co. St. Louis, Mo. ** special steel 12 Ga.shells 2 3/4" C12-70
    ELG, & PV Belgian proof mark and a few others. The serial number on barrel matches receiver.
    on right side- Made in Belgium
    Receiver has Belgian PV proof mark below the ejection port.
    Buttstock has a " round knob" pistol grip and a FN buttplate. Info says they changed to a "flat knob" pistol grip in 1967.
    I have a Buck Special barrel also with : left side- Fabrique Nationale Herstal Belgique ***Acier Special -C12- Cart 2 3/4" & various proof marks
    right side- Browning Arms Company Morgan,Utah & Montreal, P.Q. Made in Belgium
    stars **** are choke code
    C12-70 is European designation for 12 ga. 2 3/4'' chamber. Hope that helps.

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2429
    (4/9/02 11:22:49 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    That applies to Auto-5 shotguns.

    I am willing to bet that the (BP) is actually (PB), which makes it a B-2000 (made by Beretta for Browning).


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com
    Kimber and Wilson Combat Master Dealer

    whitebear74
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (4/10/02 10:56:15 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If it were a B-2000 would not the barrel address be Morgan , Utah & Montreal PQ instead of St. Louis , Missouri for first 2 years of production ???? From 1976 up what are they marked- Salt Lake City or Ogden, Utah ?

    B-2000's in 12 & 20 ga.- parts made in Belgium but assembled in Portugal, approx 115,000 imported to US between 1974 -1983.
    BP = Browning Portugal? I don't know, but there is still the matter of the address on the barrel.

    Edited by: whitebear74 at: 4/10/02 12:53:56 pm

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2430
    (4/10/02 1:45:31 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I misspoke. The Browning B-80 was manufactured by Beretta and bears the Beretta proof on the barrel.

    That Beretta proof is the closest I can recall to what was described.
    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com
    Kimber and Wilson Combat Master Dealer

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3075
    (4/10/02 4:48:02 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Were the A-500G or A-500R ever made in Belgium?

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2432
    (4/10/02 5:21:21 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Identifing a Belgium Browning
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Parts manufactured in Belgium, fit/assembled in Portugal.

    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com
    Kimber and Wilson Combat Master Dealer
  2. Warlock

    Warlock New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1
    Sorry to re open an old thread, but I have an identification question.

    I have a Browning A-5 round knob, with Made in Belgium on the barrel.
    It has the barrel address of Browning Arms Co. St. Louis, Mo.
    It clearly has the PV stamp on it, has the FN butt plate.
    It fits the 1952 to 1958 range except for the serial number.
    The serial number is located on the bottom in front of the load port, right?
    If so the serial number is 8Z 4469.
    If I am looking at the right number, then this serial number does not exist on the Browning Date Your Gun page.

    Oh, and it has the marking of ** Special Steel 20 Ga.shells 2 3/4" on the barrel also.
    Could sombody provide a full star code list so I know what choke my gun has.

    Any help would be appriciated.

    Btw I inherited the gun, so it is my only refference point.

    Thanks,
    Warlock
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  3. gamachinist

    gamachinist New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Locust Grove GA
    My books on Brownings are boxed up at the moment,so I will have to use other sources:
    My old Blue Book states that from 1958-1976 Brownings were serial numbered with a number first followed by a letter denoting type of gun.
    So the "8" would be for 1958 (most likely) or 1968 (probably should be a 68 instead).This must have started sometime late in 1958 (in honor of my birth perhaps? :rolleyes: )
    The z would probably denote a Lightweight 20 ga frame.

    * Full choke (I have read all the barrels start as full choke and are opened to whatever is wanted)
    *- (or one half star) Improved Modified
    ** Modified
    **-(or one half star) Improved Cylinder
    **$ Skeet
    *** Cylinder

    Hope this is correct and helps you.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2006
  4. tigar_al

    tigar_al New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    can anybody help me about identif. this weapon?

    Attached Files:

  5. tigar_al

    tigar_al New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    this gun has third seal on this paper
  6. Marny

    Marny New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    I know this is an old post, but I have a gun just like the one described at the beginning. I can't find "Made in..." anywhere on it but it has the BP in a circle. Serial no is B8108

    The person who gave it to me said something about it being made during the war by another gun company & that they only made them for one year.

    Anybody know anything about this?
  7. dirtyd

    dirtyd New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Marion, AR
    I have a belgian made browning light twelve, I have researched it and found that it was made AND assembled in belgian in 1952.

    This gun has been through several generations and I was wondering if any of them originally came with a pollychoke on the barrel, because mine has or ''had'' one until it broke off. the barrel seems to be original because it has all of the original matching markings on it. If it is original, where could i go about finding a replacement matching polychoke for it?
  8. cskins

    cskins New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Hey guys, I got one for you. Browning semi-auto, serial number 15014. a v in a circle, a star on top of a J, lion on top of PV, ELG with the crown, acier special. Anything anybody can help me with the dating? Thanks ahead!
  9. carver

    carver Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    16,424
    Location:
    DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just we
    Let me try! I have a Browning 12 ga, auto shot gun that I got from my FIL. It was not taken care of, but I want to know more about it. The sr# is located on the bottom in front of the load port, and as best I can make out is a 3, or 8M, with the numbers 11714 below. It has a FN buttstock cap on it. Could care less about the value really, but want to know what it is.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  10. carver

    carver Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    16,424
    Location:
    DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just we
    Bump
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
Technical Questions & Information Unknown Belgian? solid frame Aug 20, 2014
Technical Questions & Information BELGIAN VELO DOG REVOLVER Jun 4, 2009
Technical Questions & Information Browning a-bolt Aug 21, 2014
Technical Questions & Information Browning Model 71 Problem Jun 17, 2014
Technical Questions & Information Browning Sweet 16 manual May 28, 2014

Share This Page