bent 30-06 cases

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by accident, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. accident

    accident Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    First,ijust started reloading so be patient.when i loaded my first 30-06 bullets,i was getting a protrusion(case pooched out at the shoulder)after seating the bullet.at first it was 2out of 3. i backed off the sizing die 1/4 turn now it happens 1 out of 10.the sizing die stops just shy of the shoulder.it's not too much lube as i have wiped it off by efore seating.i chamfered the neck slightly no change.i tried mica on the neck no change.do i need a neck sizer die? thanks for any reccomendations.
  2. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    back the die out a touch more. Post a few pics of the cases.
  3. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    If the case is bulging out at the shoulder, the most likely culprit is you have your seating die set too far down. The crimp shoulder is pushing the case mouth down, and the bottom angle of the case shoulder gives.

    If you have backed you die out, and it only does that on SOME cases, the most likely culprit is your cases are not all the same length. The longer ones are still getting pushed by the crimp shoulder, in the die, while the shorter ones aren't touching it.

    I agree with JLA. Back you die out some more, and screw down your seating plug to make up for it.
  4. accident

    accident Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    pictures are up

    Attached Files:

  5. accident

    accident Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks gentlemen.I think yall have found the fix. Joe
  6. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    Here's a suggestion I have found useful for me: Once you set the seating depth, set one complete round aside to use in setting up the length next time. Just put the round into the die which should start up very high, and hand turn the die down until it just touches the shoulder of the case, and back off about 1/2 turn. This should be a good starting place.
  7. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Notice the middle two shells are not bulged as badly as the outer two. The outer two were longer, so they were pushed farther, creating more bulge.
  8. oldreloader

    oldreloader New Member

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    do you check your case length?
  9. Rocket J Squirl

    Rocket J Squirl New Member

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    take all those apart and resize the cases.

    WHat you need to do to stop that is place a nickel between shellholder and the bottom of the seating die.

    For some strange reason the new dies are all made so if you butt the die to the shellholder, you ruin cases like are seen above.

    My dies from the 60s and 70s arent like this. It was when I bought new dies, both Lee and RCBS did I start messing up the cases.

    I now keep a 1955 Denver buffalo nickel in my die box, jsut to set them away apart.

    Have not wrecked a case since I started doing this.

    An old timer told me this, when I returned a set of 30-30 dies to the store.
  10. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    OK, we got two opinions here:

    1) Seating/crimping die setup wrong.

    2) Sizing die set up wrong.

    I go with number one. If the crimping die is set up to over crimp it will collapse the body of the case just as pictured. The trick is to back the seating die out a turn or two from hitting the shell holder. Then seat one bullet in one case to the correct OAL (without a crimp). Loosen up the seating die adjuster several turns so that it does not touch the bullet at all (removing it is even better). Now slowly and incrementally lower the seating die such that the crimp is made. Do not over crimp! When the crimping is done right, lock down the die in the press. Place the case with the correct OAL into the shell holder, and raise it all the way into the seating die. Slowly lower the seating adjuster until it just touches the bullet. Do a couple more and make any fine adjustment that are necessary. But do not over crimp... it collapses the body of the case just as the photos show.

    Number two is not feasible for a full length sizing die. When the body of the case is in the sizing die it is constrained by the die. It starts out bigger than the die and the whole of the case is pushed into the smaller shape of the sizing die. The die will not let the shoulder collapse, at least in my experience.

    Number two is feasible if you are using a neck sizing die that is too short or set up incorrectly. The shoulder can be collapsed into body if the die is not set up to neck size just short of the shoulder.

    LDBennett
  11. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    In LD's instructions on how to set up the seating die, he left out one important part. If crimping with the seating die, the brass must all be the same length. If some brass is shorter than the one you set the die up with, there will be no crimp made. If some brass is longer than the one you used to set the die up, it will collapse the shoulder.

    If you are shooting a bolt action, you don't need a crimp. Use your seating die just to seat the bullet.

    If you are using an autoloader, you probably don't need a crimp. Again, just seat with the seating die.

    If you are using a tubular magazine you will need a crimp. But, again, just seat with the seating die. Then get out your Lee Factory Crimp Die, and crimp away. Brass not all exactly the same length? The FCD doesn't care. The FCD squeezes into the side of the case, instead of pushing down on the top. It cannot bulge your shoulder.

    So, spend another 20 bucks or so, and get a Lee Factory Crimp Die. You will be happy you did.
  12. Suwannee Tim

    Suwannee Tim New Member

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    These cases are no longer safe to fire as they will cause excessive headspace.
  13. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure?

    If you pulled the bullets, and resized them again, the bulge has got to go somewhere. The brass can't go down, so it would have to go up. When you do the upstroke, the expander ball will help to stretch the case back into spec.

    If you are really worried about it, load a very light load and fireform the suckers. That should move the shoulder back where it belongs.
  14. dsv424

    dsv424 New Member

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    Thats right Alpo. I did the same thing to a batch of .308's and just pulled the bullets, resized them(after correcting my die set up) and it fixed the shoulder problem. They all worked just fine.
  15. Rocket J Squirl

    Rocket J Squirl New Member

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    Like I said I had some do this. I resized, inspected, threw the lot out
  16. accident

    accident Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    thanks gentlenen,i've got several things to check.starting with checking the oal on each and every one,not at random.don't they make a headspace gauge for 30-06 that you put the shell in after sizing,and gently file the excess off?my lee set came with a fcd, but using a ruger bolt action, i have not been using it.one more thing, my loaded shells that are bent, i can't get the bullet out with my "hammer type" bullet puller.seems as though i'm going to shatter the plastic if i hit it any harder.is this a sign of something? the bullet is not tight in seating.none of these questions can i find in my books.thanks again.
  17. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    That's called a "file-trim die". You don't have to do it gently. The die is surface hardened. The file won't make a mark on it. Run your case up in there and file it flush. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=759934

    One reviewer said that he wore out two files on this die. He also said he trimmed "thousands of cases a year".
  18. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    Joe, If you can't get the bullet out with the hammer, bring them with you when we go shooting on the 5th. You can stop by my house on the way home and I will use my collet bullet puller to get them out.

    That is also something you might think about investing in. Here is a link to that item, you do have to buy the collets separately, for what ever caliber you want to pull. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=680804
  19. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, been out for a few days... Based on your pics it a seating die problem. Like alpo said the longer cases are the ones collapsing. I like the nickel between the die and shell holder idea. Thats a good one;)
  20. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    That's totally unneccessary.

    Back your seating plug all the way out, until it hits the top of the die. Without putting your die in the press, run a case all the way up. While it is at the top of the stroke, start screwing the die into the press. When the crimp-shoulder touches the mouth of the case, you'll feel it. It will stop.

    Back the die OUT about 1/8 turn and lock it into place. Now, leaving the die body completely alone, put a charged case in the ram, set a bullet on top and run it all the way up. Screw the seating plug down until it touches the bullet. Lower the ram a quarter inch or so and screw the plug in some. Raise the ram back up. It will seat the bullet a little. Keep doing this, screwing the seating plug in a bit at a time, until your bullet is seated to the right depth.

    It's really very simple. There is no need for shims or spacers or anything else. That's why the dies come with a lock ring. Put it to where it needs to be and lock it in place.
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