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Best all-around "assault" rifle.

64K views 34 replies 23 participants last post by  VZ58 
#1 ·
I'm looking to buy an "assault" rifle before any bans go into effect. I'm looking for the best all around caliber in a high cap semi-auto for anti-personnel, hunting, target shooting and cost of center fire ammo (which may change drastically in the future).

I only want to buy one because I'm cheap.

Suggestions?
 
#2 ·
You don't want much, do you? :)

Cost of ammo - currently it is 7.62 x 39. So, an AK.
Cost of magazines - probably also an AK.
Anti-personnel - depends on the distance. 7.62 x 39 seems to work pretty good, worldwide.
Target shooting - either an AR or a M1A.
Hunting - what are you hunting? Elk? I would advise against a 5.56 :p Any big game (and that includes pigs), I would want at least 30 caliber. You are bound to get some seriously strange looks taking any EBR out into the deer-woods. With most of them, anyway, the sights leave much to be desired. If you shoot for a man's chest, and hit him in the thigh, at least he is shot and is out of combat. That's what they were designed for. Shooting for a deer heart-lung area, and hit him in the belly ain't real good. Of all the military-type semi auto rifles out there, if I was going deer hunting with one it would be the M1A. And neither the gun, the magazines nor the ammo is anywhere near cheap.
 
#4 ·
I thought this same thing earlier this week, and I went with an AK (Romanian).

You can get an AK and a couple CASES of ammo for about the same as you're going to spend on a quality AR. If money weren't such an issue for me, I'd have gotten the AR in a heartbeat. Actually, if money weren't the issue, I'd probably have gotten an FAL. But ammo cost there is significantly higher.

An AK is not going to be as accurate. I wouldn't hunt with it (except maybe now and then to get rid of varmits when I'm in places where it doesn't matter). But it's a lot of gun for the money.

If you don't care about detachable magazines, the SKS is also a very good choice, though the price of an SKS near me has been about 80% the cost of an AK, so if you can't get a deal, I'd get the AK.
 
#5 · (Edited)
+1 for SKS, great entry level semi-auto rifle and a generally under-rated weapon

Several hundred more $$$ will get you an AK. To me, the only thing the AK has on the SKS is detachable magazines. Yes there are functional aftermarket "duck bills" for SKS.. my opinion is they take a bit more time to connect/disconnet. Modifications can be made to an SKS to take AK mags but the cost of having this done is prohibitive.

Having said that, SKS offers much for comparitively less dollars invested.

Just my 2 cents.
 
#6 ·
I agree, the SKS is better. But he said >best all around caliber in a high cap semi-auto <. SKS is ten rounds, unless you do the conversion, and like Pawn said, that's iffy and costly.
 
#7 ·
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but here is my .02

Partially in preparation for the election, I picked up a Robinson Armaments XCR a few months ago.

It was designed to compete in the SOCOM SCAR competition, but was disqualified on a technicality (One of the requirements was that blank firing adapters be shipped with the rifles. They were shipped separately. Thus: disqualified. Not the slightest look at the capabilities / function of the carbine by the military).

It's not just a modified version of the M-16/M-4 platform, but a brand new weapons system. It is designed to be extremely modular and caliber changes can be done with very few common tools in seconds. Just change the barrel and bolt carrier group. The XCR-L can be chambered in 5.56 NATO, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, and 7.62x39. The XCR-M (ETA end of year) is to be chambered in 7.62 NATO. It is piston operated (with a tooless adjustable gas system), disassembles without the need of tools and is extremely reliable. It was conceived with ergonomics, modularity and reliability as priorities. Fit and finish is outstanding and the few who have encountered issues have found Robinson to be a pleasure to work with.

Most people haven't even heard of Robinson, or the XCR, but the company has been around for a few years now and there are getting to be more and more XCR's out there. I get funny looks from people at the range who wonder what it is. Most people who want to act like they know more than they do call it a Sig.

The biggest negative is the price; currently around $1400.

I'm not a SOCOM operator, but I love mine! And it's designed, manufactured and built right here in UT, USA.
 

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#8 · (Edited)
Pick the one you think is prettiest and feels the most comfty at the shoulder. They are all fantastic guns. If they weren't they wouldn't have been accepted into military use worldwide. I like the M1, myself, though a bit pricey.

Don't forget about the non "necessary for hunting, self-defense, and protecting freedoms" weapons like the brownings and remingtons.....
 
#9 ·
I'm looking to buy an "assault" rifle before any bans go into effect. I'm looking for the best all around caliber in a high cap semi-auto for anti-personnel, hunting, target shooting and cost of center fire ammo (which may change drastically in the future).

I only want to buy one because I'm cheap.

Suggestions?
First off guys, you are going to purchase an assault rifle unless you get the ticket from the Fed. Governmnet! The guns you are talking about are not assault rifles!

An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle or carbine firing ammunition with muzzle energies intermediate between those typical of pistol and high-powered rifle ammunition. Assault rifles are the standard small arms in most modern armies, having largely replaced or supplemented larger, more powerful battle rifles, such as the World War II-era M1 Garand and SVT-40. Examples of assault rifles include the AK-47, the M16 rifle, and the Steyr AUG.
Semi-automatic rifles, though confusingly classified in the USA as assault weapons by the now defunct 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, are not assault rifles as they are not selective fire. Belt-fed weapons or rifles with fixed magazines also do not meet the definition of an assault rifle.
 
#10 ·
I agree, the SKS is better. But he said >best all around caliber in a high cap semi-auto <. SKS is ten rounds, unless you do the conversion, and like Pawn said, that's iffy and costly.
Alpo, I couldn't agree with you more. My baby is my avatar.
 
#14 ·
guess it also depends on your state (ex.: NJ allows sks but not ak's)...to ansower the thread's question-the ar is a better choice for the hunting, but the ak is better for everything else and it's a ton easlier to clean and care for...very inexpensive too-got mine with 2 mags and a bunch of other stuff for $400
 
#15 ·
I was in the same boat as you cl00bie. Wasn't sure what to buy with the ban coming and all.? I put $ down on a Kel-Tec SU 16, then come to find out it's not that high end, cost $599. So I went back and picked out an M1A Socom 2 - from what I hear extremely high end, cost $1850. The ammo is pricie $1.05 a round but well worth it. If I was to resell it I would get my money back with no problem, the SU 16, not too sure.
 
#16 ·
...An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle or carbine firing ammunition with muzzle energies intermediate between those typical of pistol and high-powered rifle ammunition. ...Semi-automatic rifles, though confusingly classified in the USA as assault weapons by the now defunct 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, are not assault rifles as they are not selective fire...
Absolutely right. But then, people say "possession is 9/10 of the law", and I say that's hogwash. Possession is 1/10 of the law, and the other 9/10 is how you characterize that possession! Referring to defensive weapons as "assault" weapons is a way of justifying a scheme for denying citizens the power to defend themselves and their families.

It is really important to resist that mischaracterization. If they start a new "assault weapons" ban bill again in any serious way, PLEASE don't whine about how most of the weapons are not "assault" weapons. Instead, refer to the ban as the "Bill to Restrict the Right of Self Defense". Don't let them get away with the mischaracterization!!!

And while I'm on this particular rant, I'll give you another one. Some states are characterized as "anti-gun", but that's not true - they haven't disarmed the police or the national guard. In fact those states are "Pro-Crime"; they are states with a long history of political corruption and having criminals being highly influential in the political apparatus. Did anybody here watch the "Godfather" movies? Any question but that the godfather was Pro-crime?
 
#18 ·
All the above being said, and good info too, buy something that's decent and affordable. Don't buy junk: do your homework. More importantly, have enough $$$ left over to buy at least 1,000 rounds of ammo, or more if you can. I think Obama's first big step is going to be to tax the crap out of ammo and firearms sales.

Who needs to take our guns away, when they can make them, and related ammo virtually un-affordable? :mad:
 
#19 ·
Here is my NON-assault option:
I like the way you think! More accurately, almost none of us own an assault riffle, unless we have filled out the papper work and paid the fees! All we own are semi-auto rifles.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Without repeating what others have said about the "assault weapon" terminology, your choice is going to have to be narrowed down to what potential needs you will have for such a firearm. Compromises must be made.

If you want a relatively inexpensive weapon that will take a licking and keep on ticking and also fires readily available ammunition that is not priced out of the ballpark go with the AK47. Neither the AK or SKS in 7.62x39 will ever be highly accurate hunting, sniping, or target arms but many feel it is the best compromise out there for your intended purpose. I've heard some fireams "experts" say if they had only one choice in a piece it would be an AK47.

My only personal combat experience is with the M16 and M14. The M16 was a great piece for delivering accurate close range fire and was highly effective within the ranges it was designed for. The ammunition is lightweight if you are going to be humping a lot of it, readily available, and again no more outrageously priced than most other ammo out there today. The Other thing to consider is that the ammunition would undoubtedly be more plentiful on the battlefield if the SHTF. The drawbacks are that they require constant maintenance and cleaning and from my personal experience lack the power and range to do the job in a lot of the terrain you will encounter in North America....that is if you plan to head for the hills rather than remain in an urban environment. IMO the caliber is ideal for closer range jungle fighting period.

If you are prepared to live with the maintenance and functionality problems associated with the AR platform you may consider either the 6.8mm or 6.5mm grendel. Based on US SOCOM field testing the grendel is about the most impressive all round caliber ever. It is both lighter weight so easy to carry but high velocity, accurate, flat trajectory, and has a punch comparable to the 7.62x51 at long ranges. The problem is it's a hotdog round, not available in great quantities, and priced through the roof. There are only two manufacturers chambering "AR style arms in this caliber and they are expensive. Have yet to have seen high capacity mags available for these. It's primary competitor to replace the 5.56mm in the US military is the 6.8mm. It is a slightly more effective round than the 5.56 with a slightly greater effective range, and is still far less heavy than the 7.62mm. My guess is, this is the one the military will go with...they always go cheap. Currently you can buy a Bushmaster with 30 rd magazine in 6.8mm for not much more than the Bushmaster and others of the AR type in 5.56mm. I'm still debating investing in one of these myself.

My favorite combat caliber by far is the 7.62x51mm. The natural choice in that caliber is the M1A1 but it is a battle rifle, not an assault weapon. Much of what has been written about the reliability of the AK47 can be said of the M14. They have been well tested for function in adverse conditions. Of what's available they are about the best compromise for range, accuracy and stopping power. But they are pricey and if you are going to be humping enough ammo for an all day fight you're gonna feel it. Personally I would rather compromise a little and instead of planning on the 25 to 30 fully loaded magazines with an AR, I'd go with a plan to carry 6 to 10 with an M1A1.
Another piece to consider in 7.62x51mm is the FAL. It is reliable, accurate, and combat tested. Lots of mercenaries prefer them. The FN FAL is getting harder to find but here is a picture of something that is available...I am seriously considering this one. A very reasonable price if you ask me.

Firearm Gun Rifle Trigger Air gun

Item# FAL Imbel .308 Battle Rifle $919.00
Brand: Miscellaneous .308 Rifles

FN/FAL Imbel .308 Battle Rifle, semi auto, these rifles start as original imported Imbel part kits , they are factory built on a Metric Entreprise Arms type 3 receiver made of 4140 steel by Entreprise Arms , the rifle is totally refinished in Mil Spec Zinc Phosphate ,they feature a 21 inch threaded barrel with a Zero climb muzzle brake ,original synthetic stock set, weight 9.8 lbs ,length 43 inches , ships with owners info , 20 round mag and backed up by a limited lifetime factory warranty. These are a resonably priced FAL factory built rifle and not the junky worn out part kits guns built by others.

Please understand I am no expert by any means. I am still learning here. The info I provided is basically what I have gathered by reading a lot...my personal research to decide what I will purchase.
My personal choice will be either the one pictured here or the Bushmaster 6.8mm.
 
#22 ·
Without repeating what others have said about the "assault weapon" terminology, your choice is going to have to be narrowed down to what potential needs you will have for such a firearm. Compromises must be made.

If you want a relatively inexpensive weapon that will take a licking and keep on ticking and also fires readily available ammunition that is not priced out of the ballpark go with the AK47. Neither the AK or SKS in 7.62x39 will ever be highly accurate hunting, sniping, or target arms but many feel it is the best compromise out there for your intended purpose. I've heard some fireams "experts" say if they had only one choice in a piece it would be an AK47.

My only personal combat experience is with the M16 and M14. The M16 was a great piece for delivering accurate close range fire and was highly effective within the ranges it was designed for. The ammunition is lightweight if you are going to be humping a lot of it, readily available, and again no more outrageously priced than most other ammo out there today. The Other thing to consider is that the ammunition would undoubtedly be more plentiful on the battlefield if the SHTF. The drawbacks are that they require constant maintenance and cleaning and from my personal experience lack the power and range to do the job in a lot of the terrain you will encounter in North America....that is if you plan to head for the hills rather than remain in an urban environment. IMO the caliber is ideal for closer range jungle fighting period.

If you are prepared to live with the maintenance and functionality problems associated with the AR platform you may consider either the 6.8mm or 6.5mm grendel. Based on US SOCOM field testing the grendel is about the most impressive all round caliber ever. It is both lighter weight so easy to carry but high velocity, accurate, flat trajectory, and has a punch comparable to the 7.62x51 at long ranges. The problem is it's a hotdog round, not available in great quantities, and priced through the roof. There are only two manufacturers chambering "AR style arms in this caliber and they are expensive. Have yet to have seen high capacity mags available for these. It's primary competitor to replace the 5.56mm in the US military is the 6.8mm. It is a slightly more effective round than the 5.56 with a slightly greater effective range, and is still far less heavy than the 7.62mm. My guess is, this is the one the military will go with...they always go cheap. Currently you can buy a Bushmaster with 30 rd magazine in 6.8mm for not much more than the Bushmaster and others of the AR type in 5.56mm. I'm still debating investing in one of these myself.

My favorite combat caliber by far is the 7.62x51mm. The natural choice in that caliber is the M1A1 but it is a battle rifle, not an assault weapon. Much of what has been written about the reliability of the AK47 can be said of the M14. They have been well tested for function in adverse conditions. Of what's available they are about the best compromise for range, accuracy and stopping power. But they are pricey and if you are going to be humping enough ammo for an all day fight you're gonna feel it. Personally I would rather compromise a little and instead of planning on the 25 to 30 fully loaded magazines with an AR, I'd go with a plan to carry 6 to 10 with an M1A1.
Another piece to consider in 7.62x51mm is the FAL. It is reliable, accurate, and combat tested. Lots of mercenaries prefer them. The FN FAL is getting harder to find but here is a picture of something that is available...I am seriously considering this one. A very reasonable price if you ask me.

View attachment 20658
Item# FAL Imbel .308 Battle Rifle $919.00
Brand: Miscellaneous .308 Rifles

FN/FAL Imbel .308 Battle Rifle, semi auto, these rifles start as original imported Imbel part kits , they are factory built on a Metric Entreprise Arms type 3 receiver made of 4140 steel by Entreprise Arms , the rifle is totally refinished in Mil Spec Zinc Phosphate ,they feature a 21 inch threaded barrel with a Zero climb muzzle brake ,original synthetic stock set, weight 9.8 lbs ,length 43 inches , ships with owners info , 20 round mag and backed up by a limited lifetime factory warranty. These are a resonably priced FAL factory built rifle and not the junky worn out part kits guns built by others.

Please understand I am no expert by any means. I am still learning here. The info I provided is basically what I have gathered by reading a lot...my personal research to decide what I will purchase.
My personal choice will be either the one pictured here or the Bushmaster 6.8mm.
+++1 on the FN-FAL!
i too carried the M16,M16a1 & M16a2 and i'm not really a fan of the 5.56 or the rifle.
i became infatuated with after market AR platforms recently but had a bad
experience wih poor customer service from the company i chose, so i just decided to purchase a FN-FAL and couldn't be happier:)
 
#23 · (Edited)
Hi, I'm from Canada...eh, and have a CZ858 Tac-2 and the new VZ58 Sporter Super Short. ( google them ) Here, the CZ is classed as Non-Restricted ( at least an 18.5" barrel ) and can be used pretty much anywhere. The VZ is Restricted ( 7.5" barrel) and is subject to our rules for pistols etc. which means you have to join a gun club and can only transport it to or from there or to meets. We are only allowed 5 shots in the 30 round mags and they are "pinned" at that depth. ( A really hard-to-remove pop rivet ) but you go from legal to "prohibited" with that pin removed. They are the Czech "AK" as the Russians allowed them to make their own "AK" and persuaded them to use the 7.62x39 round. They only look alike...the only things that interchange are the ammo and slings. They are way better made and more accurate. When you have a gunsmith tell you they are put together very well...and it's an over-the-counter assault rifle, that's good enough for me. One caveat though, use the ( more expensive ) non-corrosive ammo unless you REALLY like cleaning your weapons. There are too many drawbacks when using the cheap stuff. These weapons are strong, reliable, LIGHT, even the mags are 1/2 the weight of an AK mag and are a lot of bang-for-the-buck. Speaking of which, the CZ is under $700 and the VZ is over $900.....and well worth it. Try then out.
 

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#26 ·
come on we can find older threads to hash over!
Sorry, didn't know there was a "best before date"...and as you can see, I just joined because I googled " Best Assault Rifle" , this came up and youse 'mericans seem to have a real thang for the cheap and plentiful AK's ( like RedJacket seems to ) or the even cheaper SKS's. There are way better alternatives available, now. The company who makes mine are now called CSA ( Czech Small Arms ) but I'm guessing Czechpoint is the US importer, right ? My point about the corrosive, cheap ammo is that it can cause the same problems the original M-16's had to deal with in Vietnam. Stoppages and fouling due to the powder / primers / non-chromed barrels / gas system, etc. I grew up ( 14 years old ) firing the FN-FAL ( semi-auto only) in Army Cadets and when I joined our military, used the full-auto C1 version and to a lesser extent the C2, which had a 30 round versus 20 round mag, a heavy barrel and built in bipod / fore grip and was a couple pounds heavier. It was our version of the M-60. These were great guns...very reliable, accurate to 300 meters, adjustable gas control and super easy to field strip blindfolded....just a little on the heavy side...like an AK. We are not allowed any AK's or clones in Canada, not even a Saiga as they are BASED on the AK. But...even with our old, soon-to-be-changed gun laws, we ARE allowed to have the CZ VZ's because they are not AK based...and that is a good thing. I just love "Shorty" ...( add 2' for the muzzle brake that isn't needed ) it'a a high-velocity sub-machine gun for all intents and purposes and I never thought I could own something like that, here. There might be better, higher end equipment out there but not much cam get you the bang-for-the buck these can. Tight clearances, light , accurate, reliable...isn't that what you want ? Works for me.... ( and besides, we can start a whole new up-dated discussion, now )
 
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