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"Best Cheap Self Defense Handgun Available"

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 469
    (5/12/01 10:05:29 pm)
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    I was flipping through this month's "American Handgunner" and found an article by Ken Hackathorn.

    While he duly asked who would ask for a "cheap" fire extinguisher, he also recognised it's the most asked question he faces.

    His answer? The Makarov, preferably East German, but any will do.

    The "most accurate, and most reliable auto under $150."
    ".380 on steroids." "great DA trigger" "only complaint, tiny sights."

    There it is, us Mak owners knew that all along...

    All you have to do is add a split ring to the heel clip and you can have reloads ALMOST as fast as with your .45...

    And you'll probably have the Mak with you more than your .45, I know I do...awful tough to conceal that old "Guv'ment" under summer clothes...

    M Opaliski
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 104
    (5/12/01 10:44:24 pm)
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    If I had to limit a defensive handgun due to cost, I would opt for a small revolver in .38Special. I would rather have no concern of a "failure to feed" and or a "safety" problem if in a defensive situation. This is not based on the assumption that a revolver cannot fail, of course they can, all mechanical components can. I think that I would look to take the steps to eliminate any unecessary components ... such as mags, slides and the like. Also ... I would opt for a hammerless model.

    As far as the sights are concerned, it is my opinion that in a close quarters defensive situation where you are forced to draw your weapon ... the last thing on your mind will be the sight picture as it may and or may not realte to any potential target. You will be more than likely point shooting, instinctively, perhaps even shooting from the hip or any number of other positions that will not permit proper sight alignment.

    I practice and recommend the point shooting technique, good ole' Col. Rex Applegate ... uh huh.

    A cheap handgun is still better than no handgun, in my opinion
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Support your RKBA ... Matthew
    NRA Life Member
    Talk Radio Junkie
    opaliski@hotmail.com
    TheFirearmsEnthusiast

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 470
    (5/13/01 12:01:27 am)
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    I hear you Matthew, but for $150, what kind of revolver do you get? Even the Charters touch 2 bills. And a hammerless probably 3-4.

    While for some reason I seem to shoot DA revolvers better than autos, I still am an auto man, and prefer the 8+1 of the 9X18 to the 5-6 of a .38, even without the spare mag next to my wallet. And the flat auto does conceal easier...

    I agree though, for a person not willing or able to practice or fire enough for familiarization, the revolver is better.



    M Opaliski
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 106
    (5/13/01 12:09:56 am)
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    For $150 you do some serious looking and pick up a good used piece, they are out there to be found ... pawn shops, consignments sales, estate auctions (local) and the like. You may find a piece that needs a little work, some are worth the salvage, sometimes you just get lucky.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Support your RKBA ... Matthew
    NRA Life Member
    Talk Radio Junkie
    opaliski@hotmail.com
    TheFirearmsEnthusiast

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 457
    (5/13/01 12:29:01 am)
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    Matthew is right guys - they can be found. You just have to look harder these days. Find a pawn shop in a small town and you might be amazed at how cheap some weapons really are.

    Alphamale
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 187
    (5/13/01 12:40:40 am)
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    Yeah, there's a few pawn shops around here that have Taurus 2 inch .38's for under $200
    On the other hand though, you have to watch some of these shops, one has a 1st generation Glock 22 for $550 with one mag. That'll be there for a while at that price. You can pick up a new G22 with 2 mags for $489 here.
    Just have to pick and choose carefully.
    Remember: It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye, then it's just fun!

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 477
    (5/13/01 6:36:12 pm)
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    But I guess the point is you USUALLY get what you pay for...

    In the case of the Mak, you get 2-3X the gun you pay for...market forces being what they are, supply is more than demand, but the gap is closing and real soon will go the other way. The EGs are now getting scarce.

    You are getting a handgun of similar quality as a Beretta or Walther for less than $150, it is and soon will be worth twice that.

    And for a Bulgarian, arguably just a SMALL step down? $99.

    The point is, get yours NOW while you can for $150. Check it out first, and if you don't agree it's the best for what it is intended, sell it now easily, or wait a year and double your money.

    I need to get another before they go away...

    They ARE that good...and Winchester announced they will begin loading the 9x18...






    Bob In St Louis
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 314
    (5/13/01 7:17:18 pm)
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    I agree with Polishshooter - I wish the Bulgarians were C&R eligible. I'm thinking of picking up another East German before they totally dry up.
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 543
    (5/13/01 11:02:48 pm)
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    Gotta go with the flow....For those dollars, it`s hands down a Mak., even at $200.00. Small, compact, reliable, accurate, well built, medium power factor and alot of time on the table of conflict. GEESH! $150.00 or less, why look elsewhere. LTS

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 496
    (5/14/01 11:51:16 am)
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    MY GOD! LTS agrees with me!!!

    Actually, if there was some way to make it SA, mount BoMars, and feed .45ACP it would be just about perfect for us, right LTS?

    Actually, I could even live with DA only...I still don't like ANY DA first/SA second guns.

    I put my FIRST 8 rounds into less than 1.5" at 10 yds when I got mine, slow-fire, but actually just half-assing it for familiarization! That fixed barrel is ACCURATE!

    When I empty a clip rapid, SA only I keep it right around 2-3", that first DA ALWAYS opens it up to 6-8"+ with TWO rounds outside of the rest which are into the 2-3".

    Must be the first 14# pull followed by the second, which is more like an AD.

    I hate the DA first so much that I usually carry hammer down on empty, which I know is a tactical NO NO, but practice racking and can do it quick, I just hope I have two hands free when I need them...

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 549
    (5/14/01 8:33:46 pm)
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    Polish, you know very well we agree more than disagree, I do have a small disagreement in this thread though. I am always surprised to see the statement on less things to go wrong so I pick a wheel gun(Matthew ) I`ll leave it to you Polish..........................LTS

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 465
    (5/14/01 8:49:27 pm)
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    LTS - my attitude is whatever works, whether it is a wheelgun or semi-auto.

    I happen to like .38 revolvers (but not snub nosed ones). Also happen to like 9mm or .22 semi-auto's.

    Fact is one can buy an Israeli Arms .45 and a couple of others for under $400 which in my mind was and still is cheap even when I didn't make much money.

    If you need a gun scrimp somewhere and buy a decent one - one that fits you as a person - not just what is the cheapest out there.

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 550
    (5/14/01 9:21:02 pm)
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    TL, my comment was not aimed at the choice...Auto vs Wheel gun. Just the logic used...."less to go wrong" when in fact a wheel gun has more parts just in the lockwork than an auto has in total. I don`t care what the choice is, but don`t splain it away by less to go wrong.....how`s about just saying prefered. LTS

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 471
    (5/14/01 9:50:45 pm)
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    I wasn't ranting at you LTS - more at this cheap handgun thing. And since I've never taken a wheelgun apart I couldn't say how many moving parts are in it - I do know there are not that many parts in either of my Beretta's (I honestly thought they'd be harder to take apart and put together).

    But I totally agree about it should be stated as a preference choice rather than less to go wrong - though I think Matthew meant less chance of jamming (and let's face it semi-auto's can jam easily depending on ammo and/or conditions).

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 943
    (5/14/01 10:03:11 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Best Cheap Self Defense Handgun Available ...
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    While on the job I always carried my 60 snubby as a
    back-up because if by chance the auto failed I new
    the wheel would turn.
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    M Opaliski
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 110
    (5/15/01 7:18:39 am)
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    I'll bite ...

    The reference made in one of my above posts did in no way make the assumption that a revolver cannot fail. I simply stated that with a semi auto there are more external componets to manipulate. I actually choose both, the "J" frame and the 1911, chambered in .45ACP of course.

    When I carry both, my first reaction if I should ever need it would be for the .45 with the other as a backup, or a loaner. In the event that I should ever feel the need for a pistol and I have only the Smith, I am fine with that as well.

    Never meant it to be taken as "less things to go wrong so I pick a wheel gun", you know?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Support your RKBA ... Matthew
    NRA Life Member
    Talk Radio Junkie
    opaliski@hotmail.com
    TheFirearmsEnthusiast

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 269
    (5/15/01 7:45:21 pm)
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    LTS...."splain it away"? Is that your Ricky Ricardo impression?

    Anyway....generally speaking, I'd opt for a used quality firearm before an inexpensive new one.....but I've heard a lot of good things about the Mak.

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 564
    (5/15/01 8:08:01 pm)
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    You never know who catchs things, like that

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 504
    (5/17/01 3:28:21 pm)
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    I'll be the first to admit, autos CAN malfunction more than a revolver, BUT when an auto "burps" and you know what you are doing and the clearance drills are second nature you can clear and resume so quickly people may not even notice!

    BUT, when a revolver "burps," it can turn into an expensive club, I've seen it happen.

    It IS a matter of personal choice, like I said, I do well with revolvers, but still prefer the auto.

    The MAIN reason I like revolvers is for the multitude of ammo you can use, such as squip .38s in a .357, or .44 specials in a .44 Mag. One gun for "powder puff" bullseye AND hunting. BUT that makes it an experts gun IMHO!!

    I've seen cops years ago use powder puffs for qualification, then load up with "hot rods" for the street, kinda made me nervous.

    I know of ONE Department that switched to .45 S&Ws for that reason! To force them to practice and qualify with "real" loads...

    Yeah, that bothers me too, LTS. I can and have replaced or modified just about everything on my .45. The first time I had a problem with timing on a Mod 66 and took it apart, I just put it back together and sold it "as is."

    Kinda like taking apart an automatic transmission...

    southernfreedom
    Member
    Posts: 52
    (8/2/01 9:38:09 pm)
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    I agree with PolishShooter. I am a Mak man. I have a Russian 9 X 18 and it rarely misfeeds and if it does I can clear it quickly as I practice. I think it is the best low cost self
    defense handgun. So anyone else here like Russian Maks?



    "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it"





    zombiedawg
    Member
    Posts: 51
    (8/4/01 11:43:48 pm)
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    Ya'll are making me want a MAK now
    RANGE ME

    Omicron from GB
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (11/3/01 11:50:33 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Gotta get me a Makarov. But there's another "inexpensive" decent small semi-auto no one had mentioned... the KelTec 9mm. Cost about $220 brand new, and decent quality. I don't own one, but would if I needed something to throw into the tackle box.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2232
    (11/13/01 11:02:27 pm)
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    Well, for a while there, ALL of them dried up, but the Bulgars are back, same price, $109, or 2/$99 each...have to get one...or maybe TWO...

    BUT, has anybody seen any WW 9x18? They announced last winter or spring they were going to start loading the 9x18 AND the 7.62X54R and to date I have seen neither....
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2762
    (2/7/02 10:55:01 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Best Cheap Self Defense Handgun Available ...
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    Picked up a Baikal IJ-70, which is the Russian commercial version of the military Makarov at a show in Indy about two weeks ago.

    Fit and finish are even better than my East German, the double action pull is lighter, smoother, and more controllable (I MAY have to reevaluate my dislike for DA first/SA second...)it has adjustable sights, with a MUCH better sight picture...came with all accessories, flap holster, cleaning rod, screwdriver, combo tool, extra mag, all paperwork...(The previous owner bought it new in '95 for $199.99) and 60 rounds of ammo.

    The guy was asking $135, I got it for $125...I think I stole it at that price....

    It is EVERY bit as accurate as the EG, maybe even better.

    And I think all it has ever been fired is the 40 rounds missing from the two boxes...

    Guess who is back to carrying a Mak for CCW?
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    Rich in Lincoln
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (2/20/02 7:06:39 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del I guess it's another pocket pistol
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    Well,
    You guys talked me into another pocket pistol! NOW I GOT TO FIND A Makarov! I have a CZ70 that I need to fix (if I can) that was supposed to be my pocket pistol but I was always bugged that it was only a .32 ACP.
    I have a Glock 33 (.357 sig) that feels like a full sized concealed, and for some reason shoots like crap (might be operator error)! It's nice to carry a pistol that is a bit thinner that makes my jack not look like I buttoned it up crooked!

    Does any one know what .45 ACP (don't worry about expansion, it's already .45 dia.) is the smallest and thinnest?

    How are the Bulgarian Makarovs and does any one have experience with The Dealer Warehouse?


    WyomingSwede
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 291
    (3/2/02 9:27:27 am)
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    Im a Mak man also...for the money most deadly accurate. The 9x18 is not the most fearsome cartridge in the world...but I have put enough rounds through it to make a head shot if I feel the need. swede
    Wyoming Swede

    woodcarver
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (3/6/02 8:24:15 pm)
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    Look carfully for guns that are not wanted. The last such gun I got was an older Tarus 38 for $75. The Mak's is very good choice. Some officers here are useing it for back up gun. I got my daughter some time ago an old Rossi for $100. It make an adequate home defense gun.

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 3754
    (3/6/02 9:15:41 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Best Cheap Self Defense Handgun Available ...
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    Welcome Aboard woodcarver
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4083
    (3/6/02 10:00:07 pm)
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    Yep! WELCOME.....trying to sneak by us....Huh? We`re a crafty lot. Enjoy and post on. LTS

    weaver302
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (3/13/02 11:14:26 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Dont overlook:
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    Charles Daly
    CZ-75
    Witness (I particulary like the compact steel flavors)

    Not exactly in the same 'cheap' catagory as the Makarov, but still well under $400.

    yzingerr
    Member
    Posts: 15
    (3/31/02 10:08:34 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del mak avail.
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    I reaiz that you guys have stated "look in pawn shops and the like" for the maks, but does anyone know where to et one online anywhere for that price? What ones are good and which are bad manufacturers?

    russelldehart
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (9/19/02 1:19:15 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Mak
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    I had a Russian made Makarov (IJ-70) and although it wasn't the best pistol I've ever had it was pretty good for the money.

    Mine developed a problem with type 2 malfunctions (stove-piping) and no-one seemed to be able to fix it. Since it was for CC and reliability is my first concern I decided to get rid of it.

    Have you looked at the KelTek P11? It's smaller than the Mak and chambered for the 9mm Parabellum. You can also get a .40 S&W conversion for it, but that's quite a round for such a small frame. The recoil might be a real bugger. I think they run about $225. The people I have talked to who own one seemed pleased with them.

    kornhauser
    Member
    Posts: 14
    (10/17/02 7:32:09 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del best cheap
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    I've seen plenty of four inch .38 special Smith & Wesson revolvers for sale at the gunshows. Most are stainless steel and been used by Police Departments as trade-ins. It was similiar to the first revolver I was ever issued. Remarkably, I never shot less than a hundred with one. The automatics are nice, but the revolver does hold a certain old world charm.

    So, for less than $150.00 that's what I'd pick. No one said you couldn't pick a used gun?!

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2887
    (10/18/02 8:01:03 am)
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    Well, a lot of choices out there. I prefer something with some power......so....in a cheap wheelgun, how about a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special? It's no tack driver, but at defensive ranges, it's sure a man-stopper.

    In a cheap, well made auto......the Argentine Systema 1927.

    Soutpaw
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (10/18/02 3:37:23 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Dont overlook:
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    I bought a CZ75B as my first pistol. I have modified it to free fall the mag and replaced the standard grips with Hogue grips. For me, it fit my application of a home defense/personal defense weapon.

    I practice weekly, and at 10 and 15 yards am in the 8, 9 or 10 ring from 1-8 shots. Once I get from 9 through 15, I must get a little shaky since they tend to drift out to the outer ranges. If 8 shots into the mass won't save me, I guess my ticket is already punched.

    I bought the 75 for $299 new in a box from Phil at the Gun Shop in Atlanta. Try him out. His prices are good and his service is excellent.

    huytuy123456
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/21/03 4:20:28 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del this isn't even a discussion
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    For real, the Berreta 21 is probably the better deal.
    It consumes dirt dirt cheap 22 long rifle ammunition, for tons of practice. In this case the concealable auto makes the ammo, and you can do a whOle lot worse... take the Kel-Tec P-11. It's a cheap gun, maybe even poorly conctrsuted, but it can fire a .357 SIG! For that power the price is right.

    hi-point 9mm for sale - $90
    ( man that's cheap )

    I know nothing about Hipoint.

    blinter
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (1/24/03 11:20:19 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: this isn't even a discussion
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    I still like my Kel-Tec P-11 9mm.

    Allthough the Mak does look intresting? Hmmmm....
    "Those that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Ben Franklin, (1759)

    denizen
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/26/03 12:38:38 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Best Cheap Self Defense Handgun Available ...
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    I just bought a Bryco .380 handgun for my wife for self-defense. I looked for a Mak based on the advice from this list but was not successful in locating that make and I eventually let a salesman talk me into the Bryco...

    Did I make a mistake? Any comments would be appreciated...

    armedandsafe
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 57
    (1/26/03 3:52:12 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Best Cheap Self Defense Handgun Available ...
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    I bought a hi-point c9 for the wife for the size and fit. Now, this lady doesn't require an itty-bitty, as her preferred is her GP-100 in .357. The heavy slide makes recoil very controllable and the gun fits almost everybody I've ever handed it to. Not the prettiest dog in the kennel, though.

    If I'm not carrying the Dan Wesson, I'm carrying the P85. Either one shoots where I'm looking out to 15 yds. Beyond that I have to use the sights at least a little bit.

    Armed and Safe - not just a theory


    seven 62
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (2/5/03 11:04:26 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Best Cheap Self Defence Handgun Available
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    I got an IJ-70 17-A, a Makarov in .380 A.C.P.. I love this little gun, It is accurate AND I can shoot it well! The only problem I've had is it will not feed CCI Blazer ammo. It stovepipes and bulges the cases. Stay away from Blazers and this gun is wonderful.
    My first DA shot is allways a flier but the rest group real well, operator error.
    I just have to get one in the 9x18mm Makarov chambering and I'll be in heaven.

    Shoot well
    7.62

    P.S. I keep a Charter Arms "Off Duty" .38 Snubby at home.
  2. Logansdad

    Logansdad New Member

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    a S&W police department trade in revolver seems to me to be comparable in price...I see 3 inch barreled S&W stainless K frame .357 magnums for $225 and stainless Ruger Security Sixes with 4 inch barrels around the same price...
  3. suryevor

    suryevor Guest

    The Star BM compact 9 is $140 with a

    a spare mag. $20 to have an FFL get it for you, $10 shipping. and you get twice the power of the Mak. The Mak is too big and heavy to pocket. Hack knows full well that you better figure on taking all head shots if you have to stop somebody with a Mak. That being the case, I'd rather have a good .22 and the extra practice that comes with ammo that's 5x as cheap, the ability to have real accuracy, and really have a shirt pocket gun. The M21 Beretta can be smithed to get 2" at .25 yds, it's $150 used. The Smith 2214 is about $250, smaller and lighter than the Mak, groups 2" at 25 yds, but its thumb safety is awkward for use with the hand in a firing grip. I dont consider 200 ft lbs to be much of a lick. I dont consider 400 ft lbs to be nearly enough, either, but it is twice as likely to suffice. It still means 1 failure in 4 shootings, tho, as vs the 50-50 chance of failure you get with chest hits with the Mak.
  4. Deputy Dawg

    Deputy Dawg Active Member

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    I too own a Russian Mac 9x18.Paid 125 dollars for it new.SO far it has been 100 percent reliable at only about 500 rounds. The pistol is also very accurate.Practice ammo fmj can be bought for as little as 6.50 box for 50 rounds here in South Texas
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2005
  5. TheIceMan

    TheIceMan New Member

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    Sigma SW9VE
  6. Jay

    Jay New Member

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    I guess I just don't "get it"........

    The best weapon is what you're most proficient with.

    To put "cheap" and "self defense" in the same request tells me one is not all that interested in the self defense part.

    Pardon my lack of tact, but that's just me......
  7. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Jay, and the rest, you have made a valid point. My personal "travel buddy" is a Colt, in .45acp,which is not the lightest, nor the cheapest, but, what I know; it shoots well, and reliably, and suits ME.
    The question seemed to be, what is an inexpensive, but reliable, personal defense weapon; While I will not give up reliability, for cost, we CAN discuss caliber, and brand, to a point.
    On last Sunday, I saw, and bought, a .380 Beretta M-70, for $200, US. Single action, automatic, adequate, and cheap. I would have given a bit more for the same gun, in .22LR, but that is a different story. Point is,the guns are out there,and all we have to do is find them!
    I would agree that Bryco, Stallard, etc do not 'float my boat', as a personal protection weapon, out of quality concerns, but, poor folks need a gun, too! Anything that 'might' function is better than nothing!
    just my .02. Terry
  8. yoric

    yoric Former Guest

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    Accuracy is a non-issue for defensive handguns. Having enough power to make your hits have some effect is far more to the point than "accuracy". Most shots miss the chest at mere 7 yds, when you are being shot-at. So even a derringer has more accuracy than you will likely have any use for. I"ve been able to reliably hit a 25 yd man's torso target with a mini-revolver, and the upper barrel (only) of a HIgh Standard DAO .22 Mag derringer. If the gun will group 8" at 25 yds, it is almost certainly more accurate than anyone can hope to be in combat, with a mere pistol. An exception might be a shot from ambush, using a braced firing position, but that's more a shtf or military scenario than a civilian self defense one.
  9. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Ah, the 9x19 is NOT "twice" the power of a 9x18, not by a LONG shot....in fact the Mak BARELY less than the 9x19, and a HECKUVA lot more than the .380...don't forget the bullet is SLIGHTLY wider than a 9x19 too at those velocities....

    Plus since I "throated and polished" the Russian Mak, I get 100% reliability from the 115gr WIDEMOUTH JHPs that used to hang every now and again, I alternate them and FMJs to get penetration too, and will always double tap....they still group almost identically from mine...

    AND, if you happen to subscribe to the idea that PRACTICE with a handgun is a GOOD thing, the $5.95/50 price for the "cheap" 9x18 is probably LESS than your 9mm RELOADS cost....so there is NO excuse for not shooting it a couple of thousand rounds per year.....


    And TOO many people get hung up on "Cheap" as "Poor Quality," just like too many ASSUME if you pay a LOT, you MUST be getting quality....

    Well, THIS thread was intended as "BEST DEAL"...at the TIME, you could not BEAT an East German for $150, and I got mine for $99 BEFORE that....you WERE getting a $300 gun for half price (or LESS!), all your OTHER options of $200-250 guns you were getting $200-250 guns for the SAME price, no DEAL there....



    NOW? East German Maks are now 3 bills, I TOLD you guys to buy them then! (I wish I had bought a few MORE.)

    SO all you "Holier than Thou" guys "dumping" on them as "cheap," it's OK, now you can spend $300 for one to get the QUALITY and feel BETTER about it....;) :D ...

    I've seen Bulgarians still around, but even they are pushing $225 ....but I still haven't fired one to compare....
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2006
  10. VegasTech702

    VegasTech702 New Member

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    I sure like my Bersa Thunder .380
  11. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    You know, Vegas, I've NEVER fired a Bersa. but my Barber is a "half fast":p old gun collector and for about a YEAR he was on a quest for a Bersa Thunder, finally got one, then had his house burglarized and lost quite a FEW guns but he's happy as heck they missed the Bersa in the drawer they rifled and stole other ones hiddend there, for some reason it was the ONLY one in a box and they missed it...and he is MORE relieved he saved that one than UPSET over the ones he LOST...go figure....
  12. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    You are exactly right Jay the best defense gun is a reliable accurate one not a cheap one
  13. Enzo_Guy

    Enzo_Guy New Member

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    I'd call the best defense gun a short-barrel .45ACP pistol. The .45ACP round is enough to make sure what you shot probably won't get up anytime soon, but won't over-penetrate walls too badly. I't also accurate at the distance in which the majority of self-defense shootouts occur. HK USP, 1911, GLOCK, and Springfield XD would all be good places to look for such a gun, I suggest the XD as it seems to have a lower pricetag.
  14. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    But SOUTHERN, if you GOT all of that, EXCEPTIONAL accuracy, reliability, DECENT power, PLUS cheap practice ammo, in a SMALL package, for $150 or LESS, would you PASS on it because it was "too cheap????":p :p :p :p


    That was the whole POINT of this discussion, and anybody that BOUGHT Makarovs back when they were available for $99 to $150 are CHUCKLING at all you "Holier than Thou-you get what you PAY for" guys who DIDN'T....:D :D :D :D :D


    And I STARTED it with a quote from Ken Hackathorn, don't say I didn't WARN you to buy one when they were cheap, BEFORE people figured out how good they were and prices shot up to where they SHOULD have been all along....

    And my advice was FLAWLESS..."Buy one now, and SHOOT it, and if you don't LOVE it, sell it for MORE than you paid for it, or wait a few years and DOUBLE your money!"


    It's ALWAYS just a LITTLE fun to be able to say "I TOLD you so!!!!"

    In fact, in HONOR of the moment, I'm going to take mine out back and put a few mags through it....;)
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2006
  15. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    For those of you that FORGOT my sage advice from five years ago that was SO prescient, I spent the time to eliminate all the OTHER static and print it again here....



    Now feel FREE to IGNORE all the other crap I said over the same period that DIDN'T pan out....:cool:
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