Best Military Bolt action of all time?

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. xm774u

    xm774u Former Guest

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    smle
    10 rounds .also you can change the bolt head to correct headspace issues quickley
    the edjector is just a screw you could make if it broke .
    for the most part i feel all of the military bolt guns are good even the tppe 99 jap.
    but not the mas 36 lol
  2. talaananthes

    talaananthes New Member

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    I just had a lot of fun reading through the early parts of this thread, and would like to cast my vote for the Finn Mosins especially the M39. All of the advantages of the Mosin family (extreme reliability, a nearly infallible magazine, a good hard hitting cartridge) combined with the precision and extreme quality of Scandanavian design and craftsmanship. The improved barrel design and, compared with Russian Mosins, extremely close and precise manufacturing of said barrels lends itself to much greater accuracy and consistency . . . although, sure, the best 91/30s are the equal of most Finns and a good example of any breed of Mosin is 1 MOA capable, the average 91/30 is likely to have been manufactured to quite sloppy tolerances which leads to, among other issues, bad accuracy due to oversized barrels and the infamous sticky bolt syndrome. I won't try and tell you that my M39 cycles as smoothly as an Enfield or even a Mauser, but I don't have the severe cycling problems in it that I've seen in 91/30's.

    Of course, a lot of the problems is caused by people not really cleaning their chambers post military storage. The minuscule excess volume in the chamber allows a round to be chambered and safely fired while it's still gunky with cosmoline and lacquer and when that heats up it starts sticking to subsequent rounds.
  3. HighlanderNorth

    HighlanderNorth New Member

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    My father always owned a beautiful 1918 SMLE rifle, and that's my favorite.
  4. Old Steve

    Old Steve New Member

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    There is always somebody who wants to think something is "BEST" and in terms of intrinsic quality the Rem 40 series are excellent. but he said "military bolt action" and in terms of ability to win a war, the SMLE is so far above any others there is little grounds for discussion. This is only because it is capable of twice the rate of fire compared to the others. The action was not enormously strong, but it didn't break, it wasn't highly thought of for accuracy, but it is much more accurate than a soldier in combat is likely to be, it has an antique rimmed case, but it holds more powder than a 308., and loads very fast from a stripper clip. The rated British infantryman in 1916 had demonstrated he could hit a target at 200 yards 30 times in one minute. I will buy lunch for any who can do it 20 times in a minute with his favorite Mauser type rifle. It could win wars where the enemy was not outnumbered, and did.

    It was designed to be what it is, without pretense of greatness.

    Other rifles would be preferred for sniping, the Mosin is good, better in durability than Model 70 or Rem 40, but it was not issued to rank and file because it was too heavy along with ammo, and The PPSh41 was far handier, but it does not meet the definition in this thread
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2010
  5. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    SMLE ;) biased just a tad eh ..

    G'day to you bain

    good to see another Aussie on here

    how them cane toadies doin ??

    gonna whip the cocka roaches again ??

    ( in NSW , but i'm a crow eater and ex Townville back when uncle Joe ran the world ) ;)
  6. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Jim , i've family who came through changi , did the death march and still strong enough to live to file complaints about the ordered Surrender, the blokes fought, the brits the gurka's all of em and held em and started to push em back when ordered to surrender

    we'll never know if the troops bound to help em woulda worked

    maybe all of em coulda held out till your folks got into it

    we'll never know as they never had the chance to do it right

    we did on Kakoda against even bigger odd's , there where only 300 there to start

    against 16,000 and artillery and air superiority and later another 44,000 but we had another 1200 up there by then so it was all good

    we did it through burma too

    but we where commonwealth forces as we where in WW1 and again the orders where bad and good men died for no good reason ...

    not as soldiers but as prisoners of mongrels ,because bad orders said that was the right thing to do to save the civilian population of singapore ..
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  7. Old Steve

    Old Steve New Member

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    Serious military history supports Jacks description of events at Singapore. The fighting men were very effective, but they were ordered to withdraw and left their supplies for the Jap to use repeatedly. The orders were stupid and cowardly.

    I want to add that the time for bolt action rifles to win wars likely ended in 1916. Springfields amd Mausers and Moisins were all good guns, SMLE was better designed for its purpose, (costr and speed) all fought in parts of WWII, but decisive battles were won by artillery and aircraft, and artillery was much more important, and tactics were more significant. Example; France fell relatively easily in 1940 because the German drove through the Ardennes and surrounded their army. The French didn't defend the Ardennes passes because they were so easily defended the German would be foolish to go that way. Odd or Even, anyone. A few dozen anti-tank artillery with some infantry and infantry guns would have made a difference. And the 1897 French 75 was still a useful gun, and they had lots of them.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  8. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

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    stupid perhaps but cowardly no way i've rubbed elbows with plenty of brits and aussies and cowardly isn't even close. wrong minded but ordered for very good reason. the people in charge thought they were still fighting the 1st world war. wrong mid-set to deal with a dishonorable army such as the japs.
  9. grcsat

    grcsat Member

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    For what it's worth. The Canadian North Rangers are still isued the 303 brit. even today.
    It has been found to be the best rifle for extreme cold conditions.
    The Canadian Gov. still has over 100,000 303 rifles in its military stockpile should they ever be needed to defend the northern parts of Canada.

    Thats gota say something about the old work horse.
  10. Old Steve

    Old Steve New Member

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    OscarM
    I'm kind of out of line with the "cowardly" remark. sorry. but at the time the soldiers did think that way. For the record, my father was born in Shefield UK, and I have never owned an SMLE, and your analysis of the campaign makes complete sense.
  11. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

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    no harm old steve , i once recall a situation when i happen to call a royal marine a pu*** one night in a scottish pub. he stood all of 5ft 6 maybe built like a fireplug . i being a well trained fighting machine young and dumb and at 6ft 6 250 worried about no one . after the marine kicked my ass i had a renewed respect for all thing british :eek:
  12. Old Steve

    Old Steve New Member

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    Thanks Oscar, My father did have passing familarity with the SMLE prior to being sent to what I guess we would call OCS in 1915. He finished up as Leftenant in a motor transport unit in 1919. I would admire your courage and pride, not necessarily your judgement, in accosting a Royal Marine, let alone a Scots one. He had already put up with quite a lot just to get into the Marines.
  13. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

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    this is what happens when the usmc trains a impressionable young 17 yr old and convinces him he is the meanest fighting machine on the planet. until you travel the world and find out marines world wide from whatever country are tought the same thing :)
  14. Simple Simon

    Simple Simon New Member

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    Depends on what "the best" means. If smoothness of operation, then consider the 30-40 Krag; if most seen, surely it is the Mauser 98, if for accuracy...probably the 03 Springfield, but if for strength, without a doubt it is that awkward bastard, the Japanese Arisaka.
  15. warriflefan

    warriflefan Member

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    My vote would go to the springfield 1903 if it was just for a quality shooter and smooth bolt. But I think that for overall impact and length of service the mosin nagant takes it. I enjoy shooting my MN as much as my LE, maybe more so because it is a work horse. I don't think that MN's had the sticky bolt issue till they sat in cosmoline for years. Most of them don't have sticky bolts once you chip all that cosmoline out of the bore.
  16. mrmax

    mrmax New Member

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    The Enfield is so over rated its disgusting. I live in NZ and they have service rifle shoots here and one is the mad minute with the SMLE's /#4's . I've yet to see a relay where some one didn't have a jam in there ENFIELD it really gets to be a joke as to what tool you take to the line to jam into the mag to dislodge the stuck ammo in the magazine. My choice a I've won the Knob Creek military bolt action match several times is the O3-A3 , very accurate dependable feeding , VERY accurate and field serviceable. Remember Enfields were accepted with a 3 in group at 100 yds using 4 out of 5 shots !!!
  17. Palmetto

    Palmetto New Member

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    The Lee Enfield

    I think the feeling of balance of the Lee Enfield was incredible. They just feel great in the hands. The sights are wonderful. The Brits definitely knew what they were doing on this one. I would assume that the .303 round is probably a great round as well.
  18. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Active Member

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    Arasaka has the strongest action ever tested, .303 British Enfield often named best ever--mostly because of its durability and 10 rd mag.
  19. Randy A

    Randy A New Member

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    My two cents, the M1917 is actually proven more accurate then the 1903. But as far as smooth,,, not, kock on the close is a bit odd if you're not used to it. As far as smooth, I had a 1911 Schmidt Rubin (straight pull bolt) that was a sweet running little rifle.
    My vote for best all around bolt gun, personal favorite is 1903. But I'll bet you that statistics will argue that the Mauser will oust it. They had so many of them serving in so many countries.
  20. 436

    436 New Member

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    I think I’d say my 1903 Springfield because it as so many of the qualities found in the other rifles we are speaking of. The .30 06 cartridge made the Springfield 03 rifle, hands down.
    With that said; I believe the Schmidt Rubin K-31 in 7.5x55mm would have surpassed Springfield 03 in combat; if give that chance. I have both rifles in near 99% shape; over the many years.
    If there’s a cartridge out there that would given the venerable .30 06 Springfield cartridge a run for it's money, it’s the 7.5x55mm. The 7.5x55mm is nothing more then the wildcat target cartridge many competitive shooters have used for 1k shooting over the years, the .30x284 Win.
    As a rapped fire bolt action rifle, the K-31 stands alone, it’s just damn fast! It’s a very comfortable rifle to carry & shoot, it can be stripper feed or magazine feed. The trigger for a military rifle is perfect. Iron sights {ladder} works great, although if you use a diopter peep it work much better.
    Anyway that’s just my 02
    Cheers
    436
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
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