Best Tactical Response

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Pistolenschutze, Jan 6, 2006.

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Best Tactical Response

  1. Attempt to call for help on your shoe phone.

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  2. Try to talk your way out of the confrontaton.

    35 vote(s)
    34.7%
  3. Run like hell.

    6 vote(s)
    5.9%
  4. Draw your weapon and shoot the SOBs.

    59 vote(s)
    58.4%
  1. OK, it's scenerio time (just for the hell of it, and because Crp just had a somwhat similar situation):

    You, along with your "significant other," are confronted by two young toughs in a Wally World parking lot about 1:00 in the morning.

    You have a CCW and are armed with your trusty "blaster" whatever kind it may be.

    It is rather dark around you (because you foolishly parked your new Beamer way out in the lot so it wouldn't get scratched), so there is no help (nor witnesses) in sight.

    Each tough has one hand in a jacket pocket, though no weapons have been shown.

    The confrontation verbally escalates with vile language and threats to your person or that of your companion.

    What response would you take?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2006
  2. Smoky14

    Smoky14 Member

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    Try to talk, can't run anymore, leave two dead bodies so the only story is mine.
  3. Slimslam

    Slimslam New Member

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    First I'd give 'em a dose of my Shemp Howard "heebeebeebee...heeebeebeebee stuff....then I'd say (in my Shemp voice) "Oh, a coupla wise guys, eh?...how 'bout some lead poisoning?" Then I'd let my Ruger SP101 .357 finish the conversation.
  4. 45Smashemflat

    45Smashemflat New Member

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    Get between wife and thugs - she immeadiately thumbs 911, due to earlier training.

    Verbally attempt to difuse situation while gaining distance, and attempting to manuever to gain cover of vehicle. (Note - it wouldn't have been a beamer, there's your first problem... :)

    If none of this is working, and the thugs are proceeding with threatening maneuvers, then move to defensive flaslight to blind while drawing weapon under cover.

    Assuming they have not responded to this action, let them know I'm armed and prepared to defend due to the weapons I assume they have (note - 911 operator can now hear this....)

    They move on the light? Doom on them....
  5. Smoky14

    Smoky14 Member

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    "Take cover behind vehicle" Now if it's a new Beemer take cover behind someone else's car or truck. No sense making holes in a new car especially your own. :eek:

    And with all due respect, stay out of parking lots at 1am, too many BG with nothing to do at that time of day.

    Smoky older but wiser
  6. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth New Member

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    The part that the two thugs more than likely fail to realize is that my wife and I are both armed and that Walmart has in the past few years stepped up its security program, so my viehicle is not hard to find at Walmart...It's parked on the side of the building where parking is always easy to find, in direct line of sight with a cam.

    Night time tends to create better laws for the CHL carrier due to the decreased ability to see, albeit, we do have lots of sodium lights on the building so that goes in our favor anyway...

    I voted to talk these guys down, but I also think this situitation is very different, they are apporaching you in a parking lot, at night, their intentions are clearly not to sell girl scout cookies, their intentions MAY very well be on the up and up, but I concure with putting distance between us and them... Upon noticing them my wife will quietly recieve instruction, something like "I have the one on the right, you take the small, ugly one, on the left" and If their intentions become clear (as they are in your scenario, with verbal threats), they will quickly find that they are outnumbered, out trained, and more than likely outgunned by two people who dont push around real easily

    Crpdeth.
  7. Exactly so, Crp. I purposely set up the scenerio to close off some of the options we always hope to have, but all too often don't. This is a situation I think we all fear the most, i.e., one where we may have to decide to take preemptory action. In real life, I believe my own actions would be quite similar to what you describe. I'm all for talking them down if that is possible. No rational person wants to shoot if there is another rational choice. But like you, I don't push easily. I do know this: If a weapon came out of a pocket--any kind of weapon--I would draw and shoot without hesitation.
  8. Nor would it be with me, Smash. More like a Ford pickup for me anyway. BMWs are for people who spend mony for cars that would be much better spent for rifles and handguns. :D
  9. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

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    Too many unknowns here. At what point/location did the confrontation begin. Are both you and your “significant other” on the same side of the car? Or is one on either side? Where are the “toughs” at? On the other side of the car, on the same side, front, back, together, separated?

    I’m sure that all would agree that every scenario would be unique, actions would depend on circumstances.

    Under your rather sketchy outline (no offence ;) ) Trying to talk your way out of it, is always the first choice. Don’t have a shoe phone, so that is out. I’m too old to run, so that is also out. Which leaves---shooting the SOBs.

    At the first sign of any confrontation, I would position my body so that they would not be able to see my gun hand, which would be drawing my gun, if the threat seemed sufficient. My wife would be doing the same. (thus the question about everyone’s location) (hope it never happens, but yes, the wife and I have gone over this, and other, scenarios in our conversations)

    If in the course of trying to talk our way out of it, the warning would be issued. (You will have to relay this “warning” to the “court” later on) ANY forward motion by the “toughs” (which I would have perceived to be life threatening) would be met with sufficient force to halt the advance.
    P.S.
    I will clarify one point. I said you would have to relay what happened to the COURT, because you NEVER EVER talk to the police about what happened. NEVER!!! “I want to talk with my lawyer” is ALL you say to them.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  10. Deputy Dawg

    Deputy Dawg Active Member

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    That is very good advice pickenup,and also remember you never shoot ot kill only to stop the threat.
  11. At least that is what you maintain in court, Dawg, the .45 caliber double-tap to the ocular-cranial cavity notwithstanding: "But your honor, I thought two 230 grain HydraShok slugs to the head would only stun him so I could run away and escape." :D :rolleyes:

    PS: You are also absolutely correct in what you say, Dawg, all kidding aside. The actual purpose is always to stop the attack and escape unharmed, not necessarily to kill the attacker. The legal system being what it is, though, I sometimes wonder if we would not be better off to "off" the assailant leaving only one story to be told.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2006
  12. Deputy Dawg

    Deputy Dawg Active Member

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    Ok in reality you do shoot to KILL,but you would never tell an officer that at the scene, or the jury in court.
  13. Deputy Dawg

    Deputy Dawg Active Member

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    As for myself I would most likely pull out my badge and gun at the same time,and then ask if we had a problem, but if they reached into there pocket or anywhere else the only thing I can say then is may GOD rest there soul.
  14. flopshot

    flopshot New Member

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    what the hell are you do'in at wal mart anyway ? :rolleyes:
    joking aside, hands in jackets imply weapons, case closed
  15. Exactly my point, Flop. I think that factor is what makes this scenerio more difficult than we would hope for in a confrontation. A bullet is faster than a knife, but not necessarily faster than another bullet. Hands in pockets are, I think, a damn good reason to worry, and perhaps to take preemptory action with all the complications that may entail.

    I fully agree, Dawg.

    Being a LEO does have its advantages, that is certainly true. We civilian CCW holders, unfortunately, don't have that advantage. What I would feel like asking the potential assailant is, "Do you have a problem, or do you just want to create one?" That, however, might be interpreted as purposefully escalating the conflict verbally and viewed harshly by a prosecutor and jury. What would your advice be, Dawg, on what actually to say in such a crisis? Would the CCW be better off to simply say nothing and only react if the assailant actually moves to violence? Is it better to say something like, "Hey man, back off, I'm not looking for trouble here?" Seriously, I would be very interested in your professional opinion on this Dawg. Thanks.
  16. 45Smashemflat

    45Smashemflat New Member

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    Recognizing the good advice "I want to talk to my lawyer," be aware that the bulk of cops do understand the concepts of self defense. Be prepared for the question, "were you in fear for your life?" and answer appropriately. You want to be be on record as being in a defensive situation. The 911 operator should already know this. Remember the call from the grandma in Texas that was played all over the news.
  17. KyBlaster

    KyBlaster New Member

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    This is a tough one. I would definetly tell my wife to stay behind me and try to take cover. Then I would seek cover for myself. Trying to put a vehicle between me and them. I would keep eye contact with the most threatening looking one.Me and my wife have discussed similar scenarios and she knows to take cover and try to maintain a safe distance. I would do the same. If they continued to move on us or started to split up, still moving on us. (Seperating to get flanking positions.) I would probably draw my weapon. At that time if they did anything, except about face, I would probably shoot to kill. I hope to not be in this situation.

    In my case I would not be at Walmart at 1:00 AM and I would be driving a Chevy pick-up. ;)
  18. cec

    cec New Member

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    There is what I would like to my response to be and what my response probably would be.

    The response I would to have is the try to talk my way out of the situation or at least delay it long enough to remove myself and the others from the scene. Hopefully while I was attempting to talk my way out of this, a phone would be dialing 911. My goal would be to get out with no one hurt. I would not try to out bluff or tough talk back, rather keep an even tone and try to maintain an confident attitude. The final step would be drawing the gun while yelling for them to get the hell away (during the conversation I would have my hand near or resting on the holster). If the gun was drawn and the suspects ran off, I would still continue my 911 call, that way I can avoid the same individuals calling and reporting a crazy person with a gun at Wally World.

    The response I would most likely have is to crap my pants :eek:

    When I first thought about the response I would like to have, it sounded like a lot to go through, but recently I had an expierence where I may have had to defend myself and I was amazed at how fast I can think (despite what the wife says about my brain power).

    Here was my senerio:

    On a recent trip to a home center, I went to get the pickup and bring it to the loading area. As I approached I saw someone trying very hard to get into the truck. I moved my jacket aside, reached for the holster and yelled "HEY!!!". The gentlemen must have remembered an appointment he was late for and ran off.

    In that short time I note that there was only one person near the truck, the number of people around, what was near my potentail target, and even if I was justified in shooting. I conclued that I was willing to pull the gun and hold the suspect but I wouldn't fire unless a direct threat to my life was made. The good news is that the decision was made for me.

    I have had a car stolen before and even with how PO'ed I was at the thought of going through that again, I wouldn't shoot someone over my car.
  19. Deputy Dawg

    Deputy Dawg Active Member

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    WOW someone wants my opinion i do not know where to start, all kidding aside I would not be overly agressive towards them or would i give them the allusion i was a sheepple either,I think your second response would be appropriate.It is too bad it has to be this way ,but even if the shooting is justified you still could find yourself in front of a Grand jury, Attorney fees ,time off of work etc. I hope if anyone of you ever find yourself in that situation there would be only one side of the story to be told, and it would be your side of the story.
  20. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Bearing in mind that lawsuits, by living criminals, over injuries occuring in commission of a crime, are usually far more expensive than those brought for 'wrongful death', should the shooting start, the point of aim, and duration of fire, seem obvious.
    At the outset of such a confrontation, I would attempt to walk, talk, or run INTO THE LIGHT, making all the racket I could, to draw attention.
    I own nothing worth dying over; least of all, a car or a wallet.
    Rachel Ruth, my SO, on the other hand, I do not own, by any means, yet she will not be so molested, so long as I live.
    Should this confrontation take an ugly, un escapable turn, in HER direction, see paragraph (1), above.
    A pretty smart fellow once told me "The problems only start, when the shooting stops".
    How much of your future time, money, maybe even freedom, is the sense of 'controlling the situation' worth? Would you give up three years to 'prove a point', to scum like this?
    Give it some thought, today; do a 'dress rehearsal', in your mind, every day, and keep your eyes high. What you see, you can avoid.
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