BIET DONG QUAN Unit background Info wanted

Discussion in 'Vietnam Memories Forum' started by mark_baron, May 5, 2010.

  1. mark_baron

    mark_baron New Member

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    I finally got a photo of my wife's biological father (she never knew nor had ever seen him). See below: Some of his bio is below:

    Jesus P Ramirez
    Master Sergeant
    PERSONAL DATA
    Home of Record: Los Angeles, California
    Date of birth: Saturday, 12/15/1928

    MILITARY DATA
    Service: Army (Regular)
    Grade at loss: E8
    Rank: Master Sergeant
    ID No: 19329649
    MOS: 21B40 REDSTONE Electronic Mechanic
    LenSvc: Between 20 and 21 years
    Unit: ADVISORY TEAM 100, MACV ADVISORS

    CASUALTY DATA
    Start Tour: Monday, 04/17/1967
    Cas Date: Thursday, 02/08/1968
    Age at Loss: 39
    Remains: Body recovered
    Location: Gia Dinh, South Vietnam
    Type: Hostile, died outright
    Reason: Gun or small arms fire - Ground casualty

    ON THE WALL Panel 38E Line 037

    More info was available on his service record (e.g., Bronze Star and Purple Heart in Korea, etc.)

    Naturaly he is a hero to me (but not to my wife - he knew of her but refused to have any contact).

    Here are my questions:
    1) I looked up BIET DONG QUAN and its history and found out that he was a Ranger / adviser to ARVN troops. How common was it for the advisor to wear the patches and insignias for the ARVN unit on the US military uniform.
    2) He was with "ADVISORY TEAM 100, MACV ADVISORS" when he was KIA, but since I don't know how long before his death the photo was taken, could this have been a previous assignment? Or would his association with BDQ been consistant with his final assignment.
    3) Any other interesting info would also be welcomed to help fill in the blanks in our knowledge.

    Attached Files:

  2. rooter

    rooter *VMBB Senior Chief Of Staff*

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    Mark, I put out several inquiries to former Army personnel who served during those times...One, Jesse Rivera from Santa Clarita Ca. is a wheelchair bound vet who crawled the tunnels in country...Jesse took a round in the head and has been disabled since he was a teenager...Perhaps he can steer us onto something or someone....I sympathize with you and your quest...Stick to it and good luck...Chief
  3. Snakedriver

    Snakedriver New Member

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    As with advisory troops today, U.S. advisors in Vietnam typically wore the unit patches of the troops they were advising. It built trust between the foreign troops and the advisors.

    I see an E-7 in the photo, but a promotion may have followed shortly after the photo.

    I don't have any friends still living that were U.S. advisors in Vietnam that I can consult on this one, sorry.

    The man looks like he was someone to be admired.

    ETA: The date of his death would indicate that it was at the beginning of the big TET Offensive of '68. Lot of bad things were going down at that time in Vietnam.
    Last edited: May 5, 2010
  4. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    for what its worth i have a mate here who was AATTV ( Australian Army Training Team Vietnam ) about that time and he has sent me the following

    contacts

    chuongnguyen252@yahoo.com

    santientran@sbcglobal.net


    and this from a PDF he sent me

    its a english version of a vietnamese web page dedicated to the BIET DONG QUAN

    The Chief General
    Nguyen Minh Chanh BDQ
    PO Box 1448
    Westminster, CA 92684-1448

    is the HQ contacts for the US

    i was told they would have all details on all US personnel who helped for these units , as they are regarded as hero's by the free VN people

    theres more for the Australian association if you want it but i figure the US contacts would be the best for you

    hope this helps

    cheers

    jack

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 5, 2010
  5. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    a pic of my mate who was with the AATTV

    Attached Files:

  6. 199er

    199er New Member

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    Mark. I'm a new member to this forum and this is my first post. I served on Advisory Team 100 from 8/70-10/71 as an ARVN Ranger Advisor in the 38th Ranger Battalion, 5th Ranger Group, so Ill try to answer your questions........... Advisors were authorized to wear Vietnamese unit patches as well as any special accouterments (headgear, badges and the like). When I arrived to the Rangers I was issued 4 complete sets of Ranger camo uniforms, a beret, BDQ unit patches w/ BDQ tabs, plus VN Ranger Scrolls, VN Ranger Badge, and a Ranger helmut w/ BDQ tiger painted on the front of it). The Vietnamese also issued me a set of orders authorizing me to wear the Vietnamese Ranger uniform beret etc. The orders were typed in vietnamese and had a 'certified' translation cover sheet with them. Your wife's late father would have this same uniform issued and had the orders authorizing it's issue to him.
    Advisory Team 100 did have all the incountry Ranger Advisors assigned to it but it also had some non-Ranger advisors assigned that worked in and around MACV Hqs. The photo could be consistent with his final assignment even though he's an E-7 in the photo because he could have gotten promoted to E-8 while assigned to Rangers and they were authorized E-8s at Battalion and Group Hqs. However, with the research I've done on this question I would have to say that more likely than not he wasn't a member of the ARVN Rangers when he became KIA. I can tell you that both the 5th & 6th ARVN Ranger groups were involved in the heavy house to house fighting in Cholon (the Chinese section of Saigon) during the TET offensive and that Cholon is in the District named Gia Dinh where he was killed. Aside from this
    please click on following link http://www.75thrra.com/units/bdqkia.html and it will take you to the 75th Ranger Regiment Ranger Advisor VN KIA listing. You will see the Ranger advisors had no KIA listing for 2/8/68 so Thats why I do not think it's likely he was in a Ranger unit when he became KIA. Also, please click on http://www.75thrra.com/units/bdq.html it will take you to the Ranger Advisor Director's page and provide you with his contact info, I would urge you to contact him as he may be able to provide you with additional historical background regarding his service.
    I hope this helps answer some of the questions you have. I would also urge you to contact General Chanh as noted in an above thread, he will be a wealth of information. I do not know him personally but I saw him many many years ago when he visiyed my Ranger Battalion.
    I admire what you are doing Mark and 'salute' for your efforts and diligence in seeking answers about this hero. If I can be of more help, please contact me. My private email is listed in my profile. Here is some more info for you.................The VN Ranger battle cry..............."Biet Dong Quan" Sat!!!!! (Rangers Kill)


    BIET DONG QUAN HISTORY
    Advisors to ARVN Rangers
    (Biêt Dông Quân)
    During 1951, the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) suggested to General De Lattre (Jean de Lattre de Tassigny - Commander in chief Indochina) that the French should form "counter-guerilla" warfare groups to operate in Vietminh - controlled areas. The French command rejected the concept of unconventional warfare units, although they did establish a Commando School at Nha Trang. By 1956, the US Advisory Group would turn this facility into a physical training and ranger-type school.

    As the seriousness of the insurgency became more apparent during the early weeks of 1960, American and South Vietnamese leaders began to consider what measures might be adopted to deal with the deteriorating security situation. President of the Republic of Vietnam, Ngo Dinh Diem had his own solution. On 16 February 1960, without consulting his American military advisors, he ordered commanders of divisions and military regions to form ranger companies from the army, the reserves, retired army personnel and the Civil Guard.

    In the Beginning
    Activated in 1960, Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN) Rangers (Biêt Dông Quân [BDQ]) initially organized into separate companies to counter the guerilla war then being waged by the Viet Cong (VC). From the beginning, American Rangers were assigned as advisors, initially as members of Mobile Training Teams (MTTs), deployed from the U.S., at training centers, and later at the unit level. A small number of promising Vietnamese Ranger leaders were selected to attend the U.S. Army Ranger school at Fort Benning. As a result of their common experiences, lasting bonds of mutual respect were formed between the combat veterans of both nations. During the early days, Ranger missions focused on raids and ambushes into such VC zones as War Zone D, Duong Minh Chau, Do Xa and Boi Loi (later to be called the "Hobo Woods" by the American forces) to destroy the VC infrastructure. The well-known shoulder insignia, bearing a star and a Black Panther's head, symbolized the courageous fighting spirit of the Vietnamese Rangers.

    Training
    Ranger courses were established at three training sites in May 1960: Da Nang, Nha Trang, and Song Mao. The original Nha Trang Training course relocated to Duc My in 1961 and would become the central Ranger-Biêt Dông Quân-Company and Battalion sized unit training was later established at Trung Lap; to ensure a consistently high level of combat readiness, BDQ units regularly rotated through both RTC's. Graduates of the school earned the coveted Ranger badge with its distinctive crossed swords. Ranger Training Centers conducted tough realistic training that enabled graduates to accomplish the challenging missions assigned to Ranger units. Known as the 'steel refinery ' of the ARVN, the centers conducted training in both jungle and mountain warfare.

    South Vietnamese combat reconnaissance was a responsibility of the Ranger Training Command and ARVN reconnaissance units and teams were trained at either the Duc My RTC Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol (LRRP) course or at the Australian-sponsored Long Range Patrol (LRP) course of the Van Kiep National Training Center; graduates were awarded the Reconnaissance Qualification badge (a pair of winged hands holding silver binoculars).

    Operations
    In 1962, BDQ companies were grouped to form Special Battalions: the 10th in Da Nang, the 20th in Pleiku, and the 30th Battalion in Saigon. These Special Battalions operated deep inside the enemy controlled regions on "Search and Destroy" missions. By 1963 the war expanded as main force North Vietnamese Army (NVA) units began invading the South, launching battalion and regimental-size attacks against ARVN units. To cope with the escalation by the Communists, Ranger units were organized into battalions and their mission evolved from counter-insurgency to light infantry operations. During the years 1964-66, the Ranger battalions intercepted, engaged and defeated main force enemy units. During July 1966, the battalions were formed into task forces, and five Ranger Group headquarters were created to provide command and control for tactical operations. This afforded the Rangers better control and the ability to mass forces quickly and strike more rapidly. ARVN combat divisions as well as Regional and Popular Force (RF/PF) units had a territorial security orientation that tied them to a limited geographic area. Ranger units assumed the responsibility of providing the primary ARVN mobile reaction force in each Tactical Zone a far larger geographical operating area.

    When the VC and NVA forces opened the 1968 Tet Offensive in the major cities of Vietnam, the maroon beret soldiers were rushed to the scene and were an active force in defeating the Communists threat. The 3d and 5th Ranger Groups defended and secured the capitol, Saigon and the 37th Battalion fought alongside the U.S. Marines at Khe Sanh. Rangers continued to distinguish themselves on battlefields throughout Vietnam as well as the 1970 incursion into Cambodia and Operation "Lam Son 719" in Laos. As American ground forces reduced their tactical role and began to withdraw from Vietnam, an additional mission was assumed by the BDQ. On 22 May 1970, the Civilian Irregular Defense Group (CIDG), formerly under the operational control of 5th U.S. Special Forces Group, integrated into Ranger forces, along with responsibility for border defense. With the conversion of CIDG camps to combat battalions, Ranger forces more than doubled in size.

    When the NVA launched major attacks on three fronts on Easter Sunday of 1972 in an all-out effort to gain a decisive military victory Ranger units once again answered the call to defend the fatherland. Near the DMZ in Quang Tri Province, Rangers, together with ARVN, Marine and Regional Forces units, stopped the enemy after a 22-day fight in which 131 NVA tanks were destroyed and approximately 7,000 NVA soldiers were killed. At An Loc, Ranger, ARVN and Regional Force units stopped four NVA Divisions, reinforced with armor and artillery in what was probably one of the bloodiest battles of the Vietnam War. In Kontum Province, the Rangers participated in the battle of Tay Nguyen, in which still another multi-division NVA attack was smashed.

    At the time of the "cease-fire," 28 January 1973, Ranger High Command estimated that the Rangers had killed 40,000 of the enemy, captured 7,000 and assisted 255 to rally to the government side. It was also reported that 1,467 crew-served weapons and 10,941 individual weapons had been captured. Of course, there was no true cease-fire, and the war continued. In 1973, the role of the Ranger Advisor was curtailed. As individual advisors rotated back to the United States, they were not replaced. Finally, by the end of 1973 the last Ranger Advisor was quietly ordered home.

    During 1973, 1974 and 1975, the Rangers continued to be employed in a variety of critical combat roles, performing intelligence and reconnaissance missions and providing the ARVN with a quick reaction force. In addition, their mission of border security continued. In the last days of the war, the BDQ fought to the end, units totally destroyed in battles from the North to Saigon, many of the Ranger units fought back independently against orders - refusing to surrender - bloodying the advancing Communist forces. In Tay Ninh province the Rangers fought until Saigon fell. In Saigon, Rangers fought until the morning of 30 April when they were ordered to lay down their arms.

    When the war finally ended with the fall of Saigon in 1975, most of the Ranger leaders were considered too dangerous by the communist government, and sentenced to long periods of incarceration in the dreaded "reeducation camps." As an example, General Do ke Giai, the last commander of Ranger forces spent more than 17 years imprisonment for his fervent anti-Communist resistance.

    The Role of the Advisor
    The experiences of the American advisors (and a few Australians) to the BDQ were unique from other advisors and definitely different from their U.S. unit counterparts. Their mission and the force structure of the units they advised demanded more experienced and thoroughly trained individuals. Officers were almost all Ranger qualified, and after 1966 most were on a second or subsequent combat tour. The Non-Commissioned Officers were arguably the most talented Sergeants that the Army had to offer. Many of these Sergeants were experienced cadre from the Ranger Department at the Infantry School, or experienced small unit leaders with Infantry, Special Forces or Marine backgrounds; some had fought in World War II and / or Korea. It was fairly common for the more senior NCOs to serve as Ranger advisors between tours at one of the Ranger Training Camps.

    According to the Military Assistance Command-Vietnam Joint manpower authorization documents, advisory teams were fairly robust. Each was authorized eight personnel to perform the support mission. The authorized grades for the Ranger battalion and group Senior Advisor were Major and Lieutenant Colonel respectively. This was usually not the case however, as a battalion advisor team routinely consisted of an experienced Captain, a Lieutenant, two NCOs and a RadioTelephone Operator (RTO). It was not uncommon to field teams of two or three personnel. The Ranger Group Headquarters advisor team was comprised of a Major, one or two Captains, two or three NCO's, and an RTO.

    Living and military operations experience for the Ranger advisor varied dramatically from area to area, unit to unit, and year to year. Operations were normally conducted by Ranger battalions, but were often smaller in some locales. Frequently, multi-battalion operations were conducted under the command and control of the Ranger Group headquarters. In addition to being selected for tactical and technical proficiency, many Ranger advisors were graduates of the Military Assistance and Training Advisory Course (MATA) and Vietnamese Language School. However, the tactical requirements always exceeded the number of school slots, and most advisors depended upon lessons learned the hard way, and the good luck to have a Vietnamese counterpart who understood English. Each team was authorized a local interpreter / translator, however these proved to be of varied skills and reliability.

    The primary mission of an advisor was to counsel his Vietnamese counterpart on development and implementation of operational plans as well as the tactical execution of military operations. The advisor coordinated any available combat support from U.S. forces such as artillery, armored vehicles, air strikes, helicopter gunships, naval gunfire, and medical evacuation. Additionally, the advisor was expected to escort and directly communicate with a variety of specialist teams that might accompany the unit on operations, such as artillery forward observers, Air Force forward air controllers (FAC), naval gunfire teams, canine handlers, or combat correspondents.

    While differences were evident from team to team, the Ranger advisors led a unique life under an unusual set of circumstances. The highly mobile advisory team was with the Vietnamese unit at all times when it was in the field on military operations, which could last for days or weeks. Living conditions were Spartan and arduous. Frequent and intense combat was the rule for Ranger units. The team survived on limited supplies and rations (resupply in the field was sporadic at best), often with a limited knowledge of the operational plan and enemy intelligence situation. The team's communications lifeline and link was often a single PRC-25 tactical radio. Despite, or because of these circumstances and conditions, the Ranger advisors became very adept at accomplishing their responsibilities and fulfilling their missions.

    Awards and Honors
    Vietnamese Ranger units and individual soldiers received a wide range of awards for valor and heroism from both the Republic of Vietnam and the United States. The 42nd and 44th Battalions were awarded their country's National Order Fourragere, the 43rd Battalion the Military Order Fourragere, and the 21st, 37th, 41st and 52nd Battalions the Gallantry Cross Fourragere. Twenty-three Ranger units were awarded the Vietnamese Gallantry Cross with Palm unit award, with the 42nd Battalion receiving the award seven times, the 44th Battalion six times, and the 1st Group and 43rd Battalion each four times.

    Eleven U.S. Presidential Unit Citations (PUC) were awarded to Vietnamese Ranger units. The 37th Battalion three times, the 39th and 42d twice, and the 1st Ranger Task Force, 21st, 44th and 52nd Battalions each received the PUC once. The U.S. Valorous Unit Award was awarded to the 21st, 32d, 41st, 43d, 77th and 91st Ranger Battalions. Large numbers of individual Vietnamese Rangers were presented U.S. awards such as the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Army Commendation Medals for acts of valor in the face of enemy forces.

    A number of American Ranger Advisors were decorated for gallantry under fire, the best known is SFC Gary Lattrell, an advisor to the 23d Ranger Battalion, who was awarded the Medal of Honor for valor on 4 - 8 April 1970. Additionally, Colonel Lewis L. Millett, a Medal of Honor recipient during the Korean War, was a member of the first Vietnamese Ranger MTT. Staff Sergeant David Dolby who was previously awarded the Medal of Honor while serving with the First Cavalry Division in 1965, was an advisor to the 44th Ranger Battalion in 1970. LTC Andre Lucas, who served as Senior Advisor, 33d Ranger Battalion in 1963, later received the Medal of Honor posthumously while commanding an infantry battalion in the 101st Airborne Division in 1970. First Sergeant David H. McNerney, who was an advisor with the 20th Special Battalion in 1962, was later awarded the Medal of Honor while serving with Company A, 1st Battalion, 8th Infantry, 4th Infantry Division for actions on 22 March 1967. More than two dozen Ranger Advisors received the Army Distinguished Service Cross or the Navy Cross, the second highest valor award. Finally, nearly 50 American Advisors were killed while fighting alongside their Vietnamese Ranger counterparts. Theirs was the ultimate sacrifice in the performance of their duty.

    Memorial
    On 11 November 1995, more than 20 years after the fall of Saigon, American Ranger Advisors and their Vietnamese Ranger counterparts gathered at Arlington National Cemetery to unveil a living memorial and bronze plaque to honor their comrades. The plaque reads, "Dedicated to the honor of the Vietnamese Rangers and their American Ranger Advisors whose dedication, valor and fidelity in the defense of freedom must never be forgotten."
  7. Snakedriver

    Snakedriver New Member

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    199er, first let me say WELCOME to our forum. I was flying Cobras in the famed Blue Max in III Corp at the beginning of the Easter Offensive of 1972 and was present for the entire 3-month fight at An Loc. The ARVN Rangers were good fighters there that's for sure. Later in his life I became very very good friends with Col. Bill Miller who was the senior regional U.S. advisor on the ground at An Loc at the beginning of the battle. He had a very high opinion of the ARVN Rangers as fighters.

    After An Loc was secure, we went up North for the big push by the ARVN Rangers and Marines to re-take Quang Tri. They fought like devils there for 2 1/2 months to secure that region. Our initial insertion included over fifty U.S. Marine CH-46 and CH-53 (Jolly Green Giant) helicopters filled with the Rangers and Marines. We put them in on one big flight as close the Quang Tri as we could get them.

    After that I finished my tour down in II Corp around Pleiku and Kontum doing hunter/killer mission along the Ho Chi Minh Trail entries to Vietnam along the Cambodian and Laos borders.
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  8. 199er

    199er New Member

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    Thanks for the welcome snakedriver. I've been visiting here on and off for awhile and decided to join yesterday as I thought I could be of assistance to Mark's questions. The Blue Max gunship unit was in the First Cav if IIRC...........I also recall most Air Cav pilots wore their individual weapons in western style 'quick draw' holsters, Stetson Cav hats, yellow scarfs, and always carried a sense of "bravado" with them wherever they went. You guys were a special breed of pilot and seemed to always be there for troops in contact. Rest assured the sound of a Cobra engine and the 'pop,pop,pop' of it's rotor blades when you came on station always had a calming effect on us in contact. I almost extended that tour another 6 months but MACV was beginning to remove the battalion advisors from the line units (aka Vietnamization) so not wanting serve in a rear area I DEROSED. Had I extended I would have been in the middle of the 1972 Offensive..........My Ranger unit, the 5th Group, was involved in the battle at An Loc and the counterattack driving the NVA out of the Quang Tri/Dong Ha. I followed that battle closely, and as strange as it my sound, I actually had wished I had extended. The VN Rangers were good fighters and am proud to have served with them. I know you had to have numerous close calls in that Offensive. With the name 'snakedriver' you piloted Cobra gunships so you had to 'bust tanks' and face intense 12.7mm fire and dodge SAM missles on a daily basis......."hand salute" to you sir for being there providing ARA support. Your efforts made a differnce in that offensive. I don't know if you're in contact with Bill Miller now but go to this link http://www.75thrra.com/units/bdq.html and see if that Bill Miller (the current VN Ranger Advisor Director) is the same Bill Miller you knew from the 72 Offensive.......I suspect it is. His contact info is there. Good luck.
  9. Snakedriver

    Snakedriver New Member

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    We admired the job that the advisors did immensely! It took a lot of guts to do that job.
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  10. TLeonard

    TLeonard New Member

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    I was an Artillery Forward Observer attached to the 5th ARVN Ranger Group from Feb 1, 1968 to May 21, 1968. While not an "advisor", per se, I worked closely with the Ranger commanders in the field and was occasionally the only American on company level operations. That was a period of heavy fighting in Cholon and then outlying areas as we defeated the NVA/VC forces and chased them out. The Rangers were very effective because as a rule, the chase only ended when we had killed/captured the enemy or lost track of them. The NVA/VC tactic of breaking off contact once the battle started to shift out of their favor DID NOT WORK with 5th ARVN Ranger Grp!

    In answer to your specific questions, ALL the operational advisors I knew wore the Ranger Camos, not the regular U.S.-issue jungle fatigues. I will tell you that the advisors did wear the beret and other accoutrements. Even though I was technically NOT an advisor, the Rangers gave me a maroon beret and attachments which I wore with pride.

    As I was an FO in an indirect artillery unit, I was regularly attached to units not normally assigned an FO: SF, RF/PF, LRRPS, etc. My favorite unit I was attached to was, by far, the 5th ARVN Ranger Grp. The elite of the elite. Since I worked with primarily indigenous units, I always wore the ARVN bips for my rank, NOT the U.S.Army rank insignia, and I wore it unobtrusively on my blouse between the 3rd and 4th button. I was constantly being chewed out when I went back to base camp until I could change into my "authorized" uniform.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  11. TLeonard

    TLeonard New Member

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    Scratch what I said about the fatigues in the picture, he IS wearing the Ranger camos. My MISTAKE!!! As the ARVN Ranger camos were not "authorized" uniform for the Advisors -- they (we) ALL wore them -- the advisor was pretty well free to wear what he wanted on the camos, just as in your picture.

    After a couple of weeks of street fighting in Cholon, and the outskirts of Saigon, we were all pretty tired and dirty and needed a break. The Rangers were taking a much needed break, so all the advisors got together in three jeeps and headed in to a hotel room I kept in Cholon (building still standing). We all showered, shaved, got the staff to wash and iron uniforms. Then we decided to go to Tan Son Nhut PX, since we had been living a pretty bare existence for weeks. When we arrived, twelve of us in three jeeps, the APs (Air Police) at the gate we pretty taken aback looking at us. There were not two people with the same uniform, weapon, or anything -- except the berets!
  12. TLeonard

    TLeonard New Member

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    Gia Dinh was one of the provinces surrounding Saigon that made up the Capital Military District. 5th ARVN Rangers fought for weeks in Cholon. The key to Cholon was Phu Tho racetrack. 3/7th of the 199th took Phu Tho racetrack after hard fighting, but due to lack of commo and poor laison, the NVA took it back when they left. 5th Rangers took it back, so to speak, two days later. Long story, sorry to bore. 5th was in almost constant contact for two weeks and finally "finished"up the Saigon portion of the Tet Offensive on March 7 in Gia Dinh. You have much to be proud of as he was in that action, and based on the info provided, died in that action. I salute you for your sacrifice; he was by definition a true American patriot.
  13. TLeonard

    TLeonard New Member

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    I am sorry I do not remember Sargent Ramirez personally, it is possible that we never even saw one another. It was a very confused time.
  14. SF Mike

    SF Mike New Member

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    He may be a hero to you, but his character in terms of his parental situation leaves a lot to be desired.
    You're kind of disrespecting your wife making such a big deal of someone who dumped on her.
    I was an advisor to CIDG program 68-70.
    Known some actual heroes.