BLUE DOT Warning

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by armedandsafe, Jul 26, 2008.

  1. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    Just picked this up over on Mauser Central.


    Attached Files:

  2. Most interesting. Thanks for posting, Pops. Any idea why they now exclude Blue Dot for the .41 and the 125 grainer in the .357? It must have to do with excessive pressure, but I wonder why that is.

  3. jinn

    jinn New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Blue Dot has been used for years and years in large high-pressure handgun calibers, such as .44Mag, and I personally do not recall any problems specifically encountered.

    Now, in the event that the original burning rate formulation has been factory-altered, a whole new scenerio may be unfolding.
  4. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    dammit, it just bought a pound of that stuff for my .357 to use with my 125gr. Hardcast. i guess i gotta break out the bullet puller.
  5. Haligan

    Haligan Well-Known Member

    Feb 25, 2008
    FEMA Region II
    See you hit it right on the head, right their. They're changing the formula.
  6. artabr

    artabr New Member

    That Bites. Blue dot is my go to hot load in .357 and .45 acp. I don't use light bullets, but this needs to be investigated. :confused: :eek:

    Last edited: Jul 31, 2008
  7. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2007
    ND, USA
    This is interesting. Blue Dot is one of my "standard" powders...still have a good stash of the older stuff but will need to keep this in mind when I restock.

    I wonder if the formula is changing (and new data will be coming) or if it's just one of those CYA litigation things.
  8. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

    Mar 23, 2008
    I sent Alliant an e-mail and asked why and their reply is:

    "Unfortunately we do not have an explanation and are a bit perplexed about this too. The bottom line is that the pressures were higher and unacceptable, hence the warning. We will offer some new load data after we complete our investigation. Thanks for your interest in contacting us and have a nice day.

    Ben Amonette

    Consumer Service Manager

    Alliant Powder Company"
  9. 400cor-bon

    400cor-bon New Member

    Nov 2, 2008
    NW NC
    I have a box of heavily crimped 125 Rem JHP over 12.6 gr blue dot
    Manual says 14.5 is max, but when I tried that load it was too hot.
    Went down two sizes on my lee cavity powder measure
    and 12.6 gr seemed to work fine
    Do I shoot these despite the recall as they are not max loads
    or scrap them?
  10. They are about two decades late at least as far as the 41 magnum warning is concerned.

    Years ago I had a S&W model 58. Usually I shot cast bullets with Bullseye or something similiar loaded down.

    Got a wild hair to take it deer hunting one year. Loaded some 170gr Sierra Hollow Soft point bullets. Gradually worked the load up to the recommended max. This took place during summer and early fall. The loads worked well and did not exihibit any visible pressure signs.

    During deer season I was not successfull in taking a deer but my hunting buddy did knock one down with a shot that broke the deers back. It was flailing around painfully and he asked me to administer the coup de grace.

    The temp was well below freezing and when the pistol went off it sounded every bit as loud as my buddies 300 Winchester mag. The recoil felt like being hit in the hand with a baseball bat. This had not been the case earlier in the year when I was working up the loads. Yes they were hot but I had fired over 50 of them in practice without undo effect. The temps while practicing were in the 60 degree and above range.

    I had to drive the fired case out of the cylinder. The case was split and the primer was pierced. I dissassembeled the rest of those loads and weighed all the powder charges and bullets. None were exceptionally light or heavy. I could find no reason for what had transpired and my inquiries to Hercules (they manufactured Blue Dot at that time) went unanswered.

    Later I was in a local gun store speaking with one of the salesman about this incident. The owner was within hearing and commented he had heard about a similiar episode with exactly the same caliber and powder only the bullet weight was different. Yes it had occurred during very cold temperatures and had happened only at low temps.

    Needless to say I quit loading Blue Dot into anything. In fact I still have the can sitting in my powder closet. Perhaps I should dispose of it some how or other. Better late than never so to speak.
  11. bailenforcer

    bailenforcer New Member

    Nov 5, 2008
    I am no rocket scientist, but I am an engineer so what do I know.

    I have reloaded for over 30 years. This is a bit contradictory or it seems.

    a 357 pushing 125 grains develops more breach pressures than the heavier bullet? This makes NO sense.

    The 41 Magnum has more breach pressures that a 44 magnum?

    Here's my take on it and I have loaded for myself and others well over a half million rounds, I have been doing this since the Super Vel days.

    People loading 125 grain loads (guessing hunting and self defense) are probably pushing the envelope and overloading to get that pet load or Ultimate man stopper, Deer stopper. This has probably caused a lawsuit, and they are doing C.Y.A. because of stupidity. Now I have seen this only a few hundred times where people would bring me loads which even in new brass would split the brass. They loaded to insane pressures causing this. A few beers and bragging rights and look out Bubba is suing ATK because his new 47 grains of powder driving a 125 JHP went BOOM in his hand.

    This is ONLY a guess. I have used Blue dot for so many years in the 357 Magnum driving 125 grain JHP's 1500 plus FPS without a hiccup and with surprising accuracy.

    This and IDIOTS feeding their dogs gun powder to make them aggressive always has bothered me. Yes I used to train & rent Sentry Dogs to businesses back in the 70's and Morons in Detroit thought it was a great idea to feed gun powder to their Doberman, or other dogs to make them aggressive.

    So again this is ONLY a wild guess but the idiot factor might be at hand here.

  12. 45fullmoon

    45fullmoon Member

    Jun 22, 2006
    Dallas, Texas

    I have HUNDREDS of rounds loaded with 11.0 grains of BD behind Winchester or Remington 125 grain JHP or JSP bullets. I've been shooting that load for over 15 years in my S&W 686, S&W 27 and Marlin 1894 with no trouble at all. I know it's kinda light for a magnum load, but it's got a very mild recoil and is very accurate.

    I just bought a pound of Blue Dot a year or so ago but haven't used any of it yet. The rounds I have were loaded with a batch that I bought several years ago, so maybe they'll be OK. I guess I'll wait until this all plays out before I use the newer stuff with my 125 grainers.

    I don't relish the thought of pulling the bullets on several hundred rounds...
  13. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    I have been tinkering around with it in my .357 despite the warning. I have not had any problems yet in the process. I hit my most accurate load yet at 10.2 gr. under a 125 gr. lead bullet, producing 2.5" average groups at 50 yds at appx. 1300 fps. (figures taken 10 ft. from the muzzle), extreme spread is 23 fps. and the standard deviation is 9.8 fps. Absolutely no signs of severe pressure, a relatively clean burn, and moderate recoil. You have an intersting theory night driver, Im gonna try some starting loads at room temp. compared with starting loads from the freezer and see what happens:eek:
  14. bizy

    bizy New Member

    Dec 17, 2008
    Marlow, Ok
    Interesting... Anyone know any instructions for making homemade firecrackers using blue dot?
  15. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    i must advise against your inquiry about the firecrackers bizy, a good friend of mine cannot use a keyboard properly because of pipebombs we constructed of schedule 80, pvc cement, model rocket fuses and disassembled 12 ga. shot shells when we were kids. To make a long, rather gruesome story short, the fuse we used turned out to be one of those 'mad-dog' fuses that go fffzzztKA-BOOOOOOOOM, rather than ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffzzztKA-BOOOOOOOOM. We were 12 or 13 years old at the time, and he lost three fingers and part of his thumb on his left hand, most of his left ear, and his hearing in that ear. i come away with a nice scar over my left eye from a piece of the pvc. we are both damn lucky to be alive to recall 'the good ol' days...
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