Bob in St. Louis.....

Discussion in 'Centerfire Pistols & Revolvers' started by Zigzag2, Feb 25, 2003.

  1. Zigzag2

    Zigzag2 Guest

    1952Sniper
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    (11/7/02 9:12:59 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del All Bob in St. Louis.....
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    I will apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge on pistols. I'm more of a rifle guy...

    This pistol belongs to a friend of mine who wants more information on it. Here's what I know: on the right side it is stamped "Made in Spain". On the left side of the barrel is a stamp that says "For 38 Special and US Service Ctg". On the bottom of the hand grip is stamped "440XX" (I x-ed out the last two numbers). It has a nice brown patina all over, and there is some pitting in the barrel. There is a minor crack behind the revolver drum (is that what you call it?), just under the hole where the firing pin sits.

    Anyone with info, please jump in here. Who made it? When was it made? What is it worth? Any other info? Is this what you call Spanish pot metal? Pictures are below. Thanks for any replies.




    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Bob In St Louis
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    (11/7/02 11:49:08 am)
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    Looks like ya got a generic one. No other markings on top of the barrel? It doesn't appear to have a makers emblem on it, and it does not have the Eibar proofs on it.

    This is likely a jobbers contract piece - probably for an American or British market. These were cranked out after WWI, mostly in the early 1920s, with the Depression later putting a squash on the market. The importer/marketer would get an order for 5,000 or 10,000 pieces from a store chain or distributor, then go to the manufacturers in the Eibar region and shop around for whichever firm would supply the order at the lowest cost. These would be unmarked, or in some cases, stamped with a specific name for the store chain or distributor. So, if this distributor sold a pistol called, for instance "Uncle Ralph's Best", good ol Uncle Ralph pistols may have been actually made by several different firms in the Eibar region. Quality can be highly variable on these pieces.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    1952Sniper
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    (11/7/02 1:33:09 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del oops......
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    I missed one mark. You're right - on top of the barrel it says "GARATE ANITUA & Cia - Eibar (ESPANA)".

    So does that change any of what you told me?
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Bob In St Louis
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    (11/7/02 1:46:29 pm)
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    Ah - hold out on me, will ya? That is the maker - Garate Anitua y Cia. What is interesting is the lack of Eibar proofs - normally on export pieces with the makers name you will find the proofs - the maker would route the pieces through the proof house prior to direct export, whereas the jobbers did not. Often times when you find a piece with the makers name on it, but no proof marks, it was issued in country to a military branch or police department.

    Garate Anitua y Cia was one of the biggest revolver makers prior to, and after, WWI. Pistols made prior to WWI were primarily breaktops and velo dog pattern pistols, with a Model 1905 revolver similar to the Obera pistols now being imported from South America. This appears to be what is called a 1924 pattern revolver. By the early 1930s Garate Anitua y Cia changed over to making products other than firearms
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    Edited by: Bob In St Louis at: 11/7/02 1:51:50 pm

    1952Sniper
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    (11/7/02 1:56:00 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del breaktops? velo dog pattern?
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    You're losing me. I don't know what that means.

    So you're saying this one is a 1924 patter revolver? Where would I need to look for the Eibar proofs?
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (11/7/02 2:06:15 pm)
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    Yes, this appears to be the 1924 pattern revolver. If the proofs were there, they would be quite visible on the left side of the frame and barrel, and sometimes even struck on the cylinder. They would be a rampant lion, a shield surmounted by a crown with an "X" in the shield, and the letters "P.V."

    Sorry I rambled around there and wasn't too clear, but I was working through my thought process, and chasing the Doritto crumbs from my lunch across the keyboard ---
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    Bob In St Louis
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    (11/7/02 2:14:21 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: breaktops? velo dog pattern?
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    Look closer at the ejector rod - is there some markings there? It looks like there might be in the photo, but I can't really tell.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    1952Sniper
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    (11/7/02 2:57:56 pm)
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    No, I don't see any markings around the ejector rod. However, if I break it open and let the cylinder flop over, there is a number on the inside of the arm: 6203. Also, if I push the ejector rod, underneath the little snowflake-looking ejector piece, the cylinder is stamped 203.

    The owner has a note that someone gave him, saying "Cosmopolite, made 1920-1930, .38 caliber copy of the Colt Police Positive".

    Got any idea of its worth? Ballpark guess?
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (11/7/02 3:17:53 pm)
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    The numbers are assembly code numbers and not necessarily similar to the serial number.

    The Cosmopolitan - sounds like a typical trade name for a Colt copy. I would say the manufacture was more likely the earlier half of the 1920s. Considering the wear and the crack you mentioned - value is not much. Maybe $50 to $75.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    Edited by: Bob In St Louis at: 11/7/02 3:20:41 pm

    1952Sniper
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    (11/7/02 3:42:50 pm)
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    Thanks Bob. I truly appreciate your time and help.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Tac401
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    (11/7/02 4:46:00 pm)
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    Re: breaktops? velo dog pattern?
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    Not safe to fire in that condition, as I'm sure you know 52!
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    1952Sniper
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    (11/7/02 5:32:44 pm)
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    Well, it's not mine, but the owner says it shoots OK. I took one look at the crack and the rusty barrel and shook my head.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!

    Tac401
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    (11/7/02 6:41:26 pm)
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    Re: breaktops? velo dog pattern?
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    Does he gamble???
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    Xracer
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    (11/8/02 8:31:32 am)
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    Yeah....he plays Russian roulette!

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