Brass in face

Discussion in 'Centerfire Pistols & Revolvers' started by John Y., Sep 4, 2005.

  1. John Y.

    John Y. New Member

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    Hello,

    Maybe somebody can give me some advice on this problem.

    I picked up brand new CZ 75B in 9mm.

    Gun has a great reputation for being accurate and reliable.

    I took it out for the first time today.

    Fired 200 rounds. Close to half of the brass came straight back at me and hit me in the forehead. I developed a flinch as I am anticipating the brass coming at me.

    I tried a variety of 115 gr. ammo from Remington, Federal and Winchester. All three brands had an equal amount of brass come straight back at me.

    Will this problem go away as I break the gun in or should I be taking it to a gunsmith for repairs?

    Thanks for any advice.

    JY
  2. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Sounds like you need to have the ejector re-angled. Also, make sure it's tight.
  3. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Johny Y:

    Several things determine the path of the brass leaving. The extractor grabs the rim of the spent cartridge and jerks it out of the chamber. Next the ejector bumps the case to push it away from the slide face. The case then pivots about the extractor and exits the slide. If something on the slide is in the way the case hits the slide and flys off at a angle to its original path.

    So check the extractor and the slide face for any burrs that might not allow the case to seat correctly on the slide or that might not allow a full tight grip on the case rim by the extractor. Check that the ejector is not bent from its correct position. On this gun the ejector is part of an assembly that contains the trigger sear parts and as an assembly is pinned to the frame. Make sure that assembly is tight in the frame.

    Some home testing can be done to try to figue out what is happening. Field strip the gun and remove the recoil spring. Re-assemble it without the spring or guide. Using a spent case (NOT LIVE AMMO!), insert the spent case into the chamber, close the slide, cock the hammer and then open the slide and watch the action as you operate the slide rearward. Do it slowly, then fast, and observe what happens to the case.

    New guns often take a while to break-in. That break-in process can take several hundred rounds fired through the gun. But new guns sometimes have burrs in them left from the manufacturing process that may have to be removed to get the gun right. And finally some ammo cases are not made to commercially accepted standards. In your case the rim grove may not be deep enough. Try another brand of ammo.

    LDBennett
  4. John Y.

    John Y. New Member

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    Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question.

    I think I'll go back to the range and fire off antoerh 200 or so rounds.

    I certainly will try your suggestion, LDBennett, and play around with the slide. I do have Snap Caps for 9mm and brass sitting around here.

    Thanks very much. I'll keep you posted on what happens.

    JY
  5. John Y.

    John Y. New Member

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    Went off to the range this morning.

    Fired 200 rounds.

    There were far less incidences of brass hitting me in the head. I'd guess less than 10% of the time as opposed to 50% from the day before.

    Of interest, the 115 gr. Remington seemed to hit me more than 124 gr. reloads. Of the 100 rounds of Remington fired, I think I was hit ten times.
    Of the 100 rounds of reloaded 124 gr. fired, I was hit twice.

    I'll take it out again and see if the number dwindles. Of note, one piece of brass ejected backwards, hit my eyebrow and was directed downward, lodging under my goggles. That hurt.

    JY
  6. John Y.

    John Y. New Member

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    Forgot to mention an observation when I am hit with the brass.

    The brass seems to come out of the ejection port, tumbling over the top of the slide.

    There were a few times when the brass seems to hop out of the ejection port and hit me in the hand.
  7. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

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    Wear a hat.



    [grin]


    I own a CZ75BD (de-cocker version of same gun) and haven't had the same experience that you have. Puzzling, to say the least. I have yet to see/hear LDB give poor advice, so I'd listen to what he has to say about adjustments.
  8. John Y.

    John Y. New Member

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    Followed LDB's suggestion and removed the spring and guide rod.

    Loaded snap caps in and pulled back the slide a few times, both fast and slow. The snap caps ejected perfectly out the side and landed in the same pile.

    I put the spring back in and the snap caps still ejected out the side, albeit at a slower rate as the resistance of the spring slowed things down.

    At no time during the experiment did a snap cap came back towards me.

    So what is the element that is deciding when brass comes backwards or ejects out the side. One of the fellows at the range suggested that there could be a burr but it is being slowly worn away the more I fire it.

    I'm also wondering if this has something to do with the spring.

    Anyways, I won't bother the gunsmith yet but if it's still flinging brass back at me after 1000+ rounds, I may drop the pistol off.

    Any other suggestions would be greatly welcomed!

    Oh yeah, I do wear a baseball hat and one round hit the underside of the brim and bounced down into my face. You can't win, I tell you.

    JY
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2005
  9. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    John Y:

    You have to look at both the extrator and the ejector! Burrs on them or on the slide face could be the problem. Change ammo! It could be a batch of that manufacturer's brass that is not to spec. Inspect the rim of a errant case and look to see if the rim is marked excessively or the rim cut is not deep enough. Slide a piece of the spent brass that ejected into your face under the extractor and see if fits flattly on the slide face. Look for interferrences (burrs or whatever) on the slide face, the extractor and the ejector.

    If it continues and all seems well with the inspection and it does it with another brand of ammo, you may have a extractor that is formed wrong. If that is the case return the gun to CZ for repairs. Another thing to look at is if the firing pin is sticking in the hole in the slide. It is posible that it sticks out after firing pushing the case in the wrong direction. If that is the case you may see marks on the primmer itself where the firing ping drug across it on the way out of the gun. Re-try the dummy round test you did before but pull the trigger with the hammer cocked and hold the trigger back while you cycle the slide by hand. Observe the firing pin after the brass has left the gun. Do the test also with one of the errant pieces of brass that hit you in the face.

    Every auto pistol I own throws the brass straight to the side. I use a Brass Catcher to collect the brass as it leaves the gun. It is on my hand with an opening of about 3 inches by 4 inches. Rarely if ever does a piece of brass miss the catcher. It is highly unusual for a gun to throw the brass backwards as the geometry of the gun is such (extractor and ejector positions in the gun) that the brass absolutely wants to go out the side.

    LDBennett
  10. John Y.

    John Y. New Member

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    Well,

    I took the CZ to a gunsmith and explained the problem. He was surprised and hadn't heard of such problems. Upon a quick inspection, he felt that the angle of the ejector was abnormal, perhaps too steep. He felt it would be an easy fix.

    I'll leave it in his capable hands and hopefully pick up the gun next week.

    JY
  11. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    That was my thought exactly. Had a 1911 do that to me once and when I changed the angle, all got better. Now it throws them to the right in a nice neat pile! Glad to hear you'll get it fixed! :)
  12. John Y.

    John Y. New Member

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    Got the pistol back.

    It is much better now. The ejector was filed to change the angle. The cases were flying out of the side like it should. I did get hit two or three times but it is was much better than the dozens or so times before.

    Thanks for all of your advice.

    JY
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