Bullet Question

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by cjohnson23, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. cjohnson23

    cjohnson23 New Member

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    I found my precision load consisting of 26.2 grains (.2 grains above max load) of IMR 4064, 55gr Blitzking, with an OAL of around 2.209 inches for my Remington 700 .223. Just to get this out there, this is a compressed load and the powder comes right about the the bottom of the neck of the brass. When I pressed 20 rounds last night I noticed a little indent just down from the tip of the bullet. Will this affect bullet flight much? I believe it's because the powder is touching the bottom of the bullet and thus causing a little more force on the seater die, putting the small indent in the tip of the bullet.

    Haven't shot these yet so last question, would you guys go with them and try to shoot them or is this too dangerous? Start all over and save powder, use the bullets for a lighter load for p-dogs or something of that nature? Thanks for the help guys!!
  2. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    I think you are talking about the ring made by the seater plug. You can fix that by taking the die apart and chamfering the seater plug and polishing it up a bit so it doesnt mar the bullet.

    The loads will shoot fine. That little blemish aint nuttn if you think about what the barrel and the rifling are going to do to that bullet when you fire it. The barrel will cut 6 grooves along the shank of the bullet in a spiraling pattern appx .008" deep and the bullet, if the load is good, will still hit where the crosshairs say.. ;)
  3. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

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    FIRST OFF! WELCOME TO TFF!

    then..ummmm...you state you found your precision load. how did you find this load? did you develop it yourself? the questions you ask lead me to think you did not. after all you loaded 20 rounds and just now noticed th indent? and you state you havent shot these yet..so how do you know these are your presision load? or did you get a few shells from another reloader?

    not busting your butt, mind you but wanting to be sure you are safe and did your homework properly!
  4. cjohnson23

    cjohnson23 New Member

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    Should've cleared that up... I've already made probably 30 different sets of loads all varying in powders and bullet type/weight as well as different brass and primers working may way around what the books suggest and other reloaders suggest by .1 gr up and down of what I found to shoot fairly well until it starts shooting like crap. So far I've found that this one is the best and I just want to stick with it for the season until money lossens up again after the first of the year in order to buy more powder/bullets etc. I was just saying I haven't shot THESE 20 shells inparticular, already shot 20 of this load powder/bullet weight and am putting a ragged hole with a five shot group at 100. Sorry about that.
  5. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    4064 is a bit slow for the .223, but some rifles like it slow. I had an AR that wouldnt cycle with anything faster burning than the 4895s.

    If it works use it. and dont sweat the blemish made by the seater plug. Polish the seater plug and that will go away.
  6. cjohnson23

    cjohnson23 New Member

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    Thanks guys!

    I notice most people say blemish or ring, here's a picture for a reference. I've had where the ring kinda shows up and you can see where the seater was touching, this is an actual indent around the whole bullet and on some you can even feel a slight rib or shoulder almost. You can really see it on the far left one.

    [​IMG]
  7. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    The Blitzking is one of those thin-jacketed bullets.
    Hornady's SX and the Speer TNT lines are the same way.

    Yeah you might get those dents on occasion when a bullet seats harder than usual. I get them every so often if I don't get the bullet set square on the case mouth or if I hadn't chamfered the case mouth quite enough.
    I notice that the center round that you've got pictured has a slight ring of jacket shaved off of the bullet... If you're shaving the jacket then those thin-jacketed bullets will distort too.

    You're fine to go ahead & shoot them but it depends on your rifle whether or not it'll affect the groups.
    Next loading, doublecheck the cases to see if there is anything causing the excessively hard seating pressure.
    A compressed load might be causing the dent but I've got several compressed loads for my .25-06 and the Speer 87gr TNT and they don't dent the bullet unless I do something else wrong. Do you have enough room in your rifle's throat or magazine to let you try seating the bullet longer?
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  8. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Deburr your cases a little better. You are shaving jacket off the bullet during seating.

    Other than that those loads should shoot just fine.
  9. cjohnson23

    cjohnson23 New Member

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    Thanks guys! I'll probably try bringing the bullet out a little and getting about a thousands or a little more off the lands, I think I got some room to work and see what that does. Will that affect grouping though? Or does it just depend on the gun? That or I will deburr more, I can't recall even deburring these brass to tell you the truth.
    One last question... here's a couple pictures of my primers, any feedback here?

    First- far left is the load I'm shooting now. Two on the right are loads I only used about 22gr of powder and was only pushing about 2500-2700 fps.
    [​IMG]

    Here is my load next to a factory round. Is my primer looking alright or is that lip too big?
    [​IMG]

    Thanks again guys, really appreciate it!! Been a HUGE help!
  10. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Thats primer cratering. It is normally a sign of high pressure. Thats actually pressure pushing primer cup material up around the firing pin. It could also mean your bolt head has an excessive firing pin hole, in which case a normal pressure load would crater. Are you having any hard bolt lift or sticky exctraction issues after firing the rounds?
  11. cpttango30

    cpttango30 Guest

    If its a remington they do chamfer around the firing pin. But YOU need to back off that load. The only thing you are doing is causing unneeded wear and tear on your gun.

    Remember some rifles might have a chamber that is on the bottom end of the SAMMI specs and other might be on the upper end.

    I have had mid range loads in my Rem VLS show pressure signs like that. So in my book you need to back off way off like 3 gr.
  12. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    There are two problems I see:

    First, if the load is compressed then the chances of distorting the bullet during seating is much higher than if you use a lesser load. You may want to try a different powder, one more conducive to 223.

    Second, you state that you are above the max load. My Sierra manual says a MAX load of IMR4064 is 25.8 grs for the 55 gr Sierra bullet. Your load is 0.4 grain ABOVE that! That is not a place to be. I know, you tested it but with the primer cratering shown I think the pressure too high. You need to back this load down.

    LDBennett
  13. cjohnson23

    cjohnson23 New Member

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    I'm going to try some new powder I'm thinking that or back the load off. And according to my manual, Sierra Blitzking 55 gr, IMR 4064 max load is 26 gr.
  14. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    What rifle are you loading for??

    action type?
    Barrel length?
    twist rate?
    etc...
  15. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    Yup, the current Sierra manual shows 26.0gr as max.
    As others have pointed out you're showing excessive flattening & cratering of the primer. That's a recipe for pierced primers and/or a blow up.
    The .223 is a fairly small volume case and that 0.4gr over can make a VERY large difference in pressure. Even 0.1gr can make a big difference when you're sitting on the redline.

    Comparing primer signs...
    -The factory load is cratered a bit. That's due to the large chamfer on the firing pin hole (a Remington trait as cpttango mentioned). BUT, the edges of the cratering are softly rounded.
    -Your 22gr starting load has nice smooth primers, with no cratering and no texturing. Definitely mild.
    -Your 26.4gr load has a very sharply defined crater...it flowed almost perfectly into the chamfer on the bolt face. It is also textured with the machining marks on the bolt face when compared to the same primer in your 22gr load. That's another indicator of excessive pressure. You're not very far away from a pierced primer...all you need is a soft cup or change and it'll blow out on ya.
    I would also bet that those primer pockets on your max are going to be loose from excessive case head expansion as well.

    It's been a few years since I've reloaded for the .223 but I would definitely pick a different powder and back off a bit.
    I'm actually surprised that it was grouping good with the hot load...normally groups start to open up once you're pushing max.

    I was using H335 and Reloder7. Normally, I'm a fan of sticking with powder on the slower end of the range listed for a cartridge but those are the two that I've used since they were recommended to me many years back when I first started loading that caliber. I think the 4064s, BLC2, and Varget are on the slow end for the .223.
    A friend of mine uses H335 or IMR4895 for his .223 loads.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011
  16. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    This is just a hunch.. but if youre shooting a short barreled rifle (20" or less) try this with your 55 gr Blitzkings..

    Reloder 10X
    23 gr charge MAX
    CCI 400 primer
    2.175" OAL

    Reloder 10X has been a super accurate perfomer in the short barreled .223 rifles i have owned over the years.
  17. cjohnson23

    cjohnson23 New Member

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    It's a Remington 700 Varmit SPF I believe, maybe SPS.
    24" barrel
    Twist 1:12 I believe maybe 1:10

    Went out and shot 5 more, and shot like h e l l.... couldn't get anything to touch! Pretty sure I'm starting all over. Thinking about getting either Reloader 7, IMR 4895, or Varget.Though I've heard a lot of people are dissapointed with Varget. As well as thinking about trying some Nosler varmit bullets.

    Kinda at a lull here so any load combos would be appreciated! But more than likely it'll be from scratch again.

    Took my Howa Axiom .223 out with the same loads (IMR 4064 is not in the Hornady book for 52gr A-max so I'm going in blind and experimenting) except backed them off to around the 24gr range shooting about 2800fps all the way up to 25.5gr shooting around 2980fps. Gonna try 26 gr since the bullet profile of the 52gr A-max is a little shorter than the Blitzking so I'm hoping it won't be compressed. I have been pushing it .009 more than I am with my Remington. Gonna load one and see how it looks and if it is indenting the bullet or looks like it's going to compress I won't go that high. 24.5 to 25gr looked really good so I'm gonna work .1 increments there now. Any thoughts of this, as far as the data I have given you? Think it's a good idea??
  18. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    if it is a 12 twist try a 40 gr Hornady Vmax over reloder 10X
  19. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    I must advise against your wingin it reloading approach.. Reloading isnt soemthing you can do and think its right. You have to know its right, or sooner or later you will end up with a destroyed rifle, or worse.. dead from a catastrophic failure.

    Verify EXACTLY what your rifle is.. What the barrel length and twist rate is.. Then select a set of components out of a reloading manual and start from the starting load and work your way up to an accurate load.

    "I THINK" isnt going to cut it if you want SUB MOA capable ammo. You have to do your homework, and you have to triple check your work and keep accurate notes.

    I am more than willing to help you out along the way with any questions you have. I have developed more loads for individual rifles than i can remember and have encountered just about every problem.. But stop and realize where im coming from... You began this thread with "I have found my precision load" but not a day and 15 posts later the load doesnt shoot for crap and you cant remember what kind of rifle you have or the barrel twist rate. If you want to talk precision you have to KNOW these things at the very least.. I am only advocating your safety. So try not to take this too harshly.. call it tough love or constructive criticism. Myself and other here can more than give you the knowledge you need to be a SUB MOA shooter..
  20. gun-nut

    gun-nut Member

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    try out IMR 4198. I have the best luck with that. I run 55gr sp of all makes and 22.5 gr of IMR 4198 I have grops of a 1/2 dollar at 250 yards. I run this load with cci small rifle primers. This works great in my Howa 1500 .223 Just something to try. ;)
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