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"Bunker Buster" bombs...

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by Guest, Mar 3, 2003.

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    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1836
    (10/11/01 10:00:19 am)
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    Did anybody catch the report what they are?

    During the Gulf War we DIDN'T have them, but when we ran into the 3C bunkers Iraq had, some minor (at the time, I hope he's a GENERAL by now...)Air Force officer in-theater came up with the idea, sent it through back channels to the US, and 4 were made up and 2 were used before the end of the war.

    A regular GP laser guided bomb, (looks like a 1000 pounder,) with a piece of an old 8" artillery TUBE attached to the front end and packed with HE, with the laser unit reattached to the front.

    When we used 2 of the prototypes in the Gulf,
    they were thought to be duds, because no explosion seen, just dust...then later somebody saw the smoke coming through the "hole."

    From scratch pad to initial deployment in less than 30 days! God I love American ingenuity!

    We refined them, and issued them in numbers to the AF and Navy in 1998...

    Penetrates "at least" 35 feet of reinforced concrete when dropped from "optimum" height and hits at "optimum" angle....


    Right now, the Question of the day in Iraq is:

    "How thick are our bunkers again?"

    (Saddam's version: "How thick is MY bunker again? )


    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 1042
    (10/11/01 10:33:28 am)
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    Yeah....they're OK if you like little bombs, but the Brits had those 12,000 lb. "Grand Slams" in WWII. They used them on the U-Boat pens in Brest.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1840
    (10/11/01 10:52:14 am)
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    Heah, X, but it's not size of the bang that matters, it's how deep you PLOW...(sounds like a backwards sex joke...) You need penetration and delay, tough to get with any conventional bomb, even APs...and traditional APs carry very little HE as a trade off for the penetration, compared to a GP bomb % of total bomb weight.

    Those pens were NEVER put out of action by bombing alone, about the only thing damaged were the blast doors. And they were NOT 35' thick either...

    But those 12000 pounders worked wonders against the Tirpitz, though, even if they didn't hit it, they made it turn turtle.

    The RAF also used a few "blockbuster" GP bombs that were even bigger, I believe 22,000 lbs., from the 633rds "funny" Lancasters.

    We used the 15000 pound bombs developed in Vietnam to clear landing zones, in the Gulf, but they didn't work against bunkers, and had to be delivered by C-130s...said that anybody within 3 miles on top of the ground, or in unprotected holes or trenches had burst eardrums from the pressure wave...we even used them for Psyops, used to drop leaflets to the Iraquis telling them EXACTLY where we were going to drop one tomorrow, then did it...recon showed the SECOND time we did that, Iraqui soldiers scrambling to pick up the leaflets, and if it was to be anywhere NEAR their position, they deserted en masse that night...

    The idea that a single F-18 or F-16, or F117 can take out the deepest bunker with one shot, and STILL have other ordnance on board for other missions is a pretty wild deal, and puts a whole new meaning into Martha's "Nowhere to run to, Baby, Nowhere to hide..."
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1847
    (10/11/01 4:07:35 pm)
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    They're calling them 5000 pounders, GB 28s or something...
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 108
    (10/11/01 10:03:00 pm)
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    saw that info in '91 (about the gun barrels be remanf into bomb casings), and was JUST telling a friend about about 6 hrs ago, funny timing

    Very cool idea, certainly short-cut a development cycle that would have taken YEARS / Millions at any other time.

    Speaking of Lancasters and freaky bombs, what were those spinning drum-shaped 'dam buster' bombs named?

    Rich

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1855
    (10/12/01 12:09:32 am)
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    Spinning drum-shaped Dam Busters.

    Did they even have a name? Probably Dam, bombe, Drum, No.1 Mk II or something.

    I liked how they mounted the spotlights on the nose and tail, and when the lights converged on the water they were right at 60 feet.

    Talk about High tech...
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    Spanish Cruffler
    Member
    Posts: 236
    (10/12/01 5:31:03 am)
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    The one problem we face in Afghanistan is how deep are the caves these rats are hiding in? We would need to target near the entrance or a portion of the cave system that would be within penetration range - going to have to be pin-prick placement.

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 1051
    (10/12/01 10:35:13 am)
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    Polish....the bomb sight was even lower tech....a "T" shaped piece of wood with dowels at each end, calculated for the width of the particluar dam targeted. The bombardier sited along the main axis until the dowels lined up with the edges of the dam. At the right height and distance, the bomb was released to skip along the water and settle to the bottom at the inside base of the dam.

    Did you see "The Dam Busters"? That Barnes Wallis was a pretty dam smart guy! (pun intended)

    Mesen
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 242
    (10/12/01 11:56:14 am)
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    the caves will have to be cleared the same way as the caves the Japs used in WWII flamethrowers, explosives, and that up close and personal touch
    IF YOU VALUE YOUR FREEDOM, THANK A VET!

    kdubaz
    Moderator
    Posts: 729
    (10/12/01 1:49:16 pm)
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    Seems if they can get the right bombs to penetrate and set up the proper harmonics, they could cause earthquakes of sufficient magnitudes to collapse the cave networks and sqwish all within the network. Sure would save the cost of bulldozing the carcasses into a pit and covering them up.

    Don't know how you'd ever verify you really got the rats or not, tho..........
    Keep below the ridgeline!

    17th FA Bn
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 29
    (10/14/01 2:22:59 pm)
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    Polish I don't think the F-117 can carry the 5,000 lb. bomb, the bomb bays are to short. I think the biggest thing they can carry is a 2,000 lb. bomb, and it is specially modified version of that bomb with shorter fins. In the Gulf War the 5,000 pounders were carried by F-111's.

    I read about a Lancaster dropping a 20,000 lb. bomb against a railroad trestle at the end of WW II. It was said to penetrate 75 feet before it exploded, and the effect was like an earth quake.

    You've got to hope that the Air Force has some thing even bigger than the 5,000 pounder in case it is needed latter. You could take the same 8" howitzer barrels and fill them up with depleted uranium and some high explosives for maximum penetration. If a 5,000 pounder will penetrate 35 feet of concrete, we could double the weight and double the penetration.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1892
    (10/14/01 8:19:32 pm)
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    Yeah, 17th, I recall now that the 117 can't carry much, like only two "smart bombs."

    I don't know, you'd think in 10 years they'd have made a bigger "Mark II" if it would work, sometimes bigger ain't necessarily better...

    And yeah, that 20,000 pounder is the one called the "Grand Slam" if I remember right.

    I saw another special on the bunker buster GBU-28 the other day, explained it worked like an explosive concrete nail. Whatever THAT means...

    In that enclosed space in a bunker or a cave, I'd think you wouldn't need that much explosive...it would be pretty darned concentrated...not dissapating into the air like GP HE bombs.

    I know AP bombs dropped by Dive bombers in WWII were not all that powerfull in terms of HE, a 1000 pounder would only have a hundred pounds or so HE if I remember right, and the blast was pretty destructive 4 or 5 decks down...

    Heck, the Japs simply put fins on 12" and 14" Naval AP GUN shells and used them as AP bombs pretty effectively against us...

    I'd like to see us use those BIG bombs we used in the Gulf and Vietnam, the ones we have to roll out the back of the C-130s. I think they are called "Daisy Cutters(?)" 15000 lbs of HE.

    In Iraq, we WARNED them where we would drop them the next day with leaflets, then did it as advertised.

    They say it added credibility to our psyops, and those leaflets became PRECIOUS the second time we did it and after! LOL LOTS of defections, surrenders, and "quick retreats," after the LEAFLETS were dropped, usually into the sights of the Hogs and Apaches...

    It would give THEM a taste of "terror."
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...
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General Military Arms & History Forum Daisy Cutters & Bunker Busters Mar 3, 2003

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