C.O.L. .45acp

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by todd51, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    No Josh I have nothing against lead. I used to shoot it almost exclusively in the Gold Cup but got some that was not hard enough and spent too much time getting rid of the lead build up just past the throat. So switched to jacketed and plated and no problems except this one 200gr. from Berry's. Looking at the prices out there I will probably be going back to lead as these are just for range use. I am shooting some factory fmj through the new Ruger to slick things up but will switch to some thing more affordable. I was just looking at the various suppliers and almost every body is out of stock at the moment for fmj.

    I had 50 of those Berry's left and loaded them yesterday but haven't had a chance to shoot them to see if they will feed at their max length.
  2. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind Todd that running too hard lead will also cause leading. the .45ACP only needs 12 BHN at max to shoot right. Most manufacturers sell 18 BHN or harder.

    The Missouri cast offer 12 BHN and Thats what i use mostly. No leading at all and fantastic accuracy.
  3. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know that. Thank you. The ones that were giving me the leading problem were 200gr. SWC, Ammo Maker out of Mentor Ohio. I finally used them up never to go back. I don't have a clue as to their hardness. In my ignorance I figured to soft but they may have been to hard.
  4. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    I have in the past used commercial lead bullets in my semi-autos, both 45ACP and 9mm. I never pushed either beyond 1000 FPS (the 45 was loaded down to lead specs) and I got leading just in front of the chamber every time. And it did not remove easily either. It usually took a pick to get it all out of the grooves. I gave up on using cast lead bullet and switched back to FMJ RN bullets, eventually. I use the bulk Remington or Winchester bullets. I did use Rainier plated bullets for awhile but in the 45ACP I too got some failures to feed in a SIG. Now Sig's shoot anything but not those plated bullets. I still use the plated bullets in my revolvers and the few pistol cartridge lever guns I have.

    LDBennett
  5. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Also todd if you try lead again (which you will, Im sending you 12 BHN swcs) make sure they are oversized .452". I know the reloading data sheets say dont use bullet over .451" for the .45ACP, But I aint ever had a round not wanna chamber. And if the lead is working properly the bullets will streak the bore with silver the same a FMJ streaks it with gold.

    With lead you cannot reduce the loads as LD mentioned without using dead soft lead (6 BHN) because the bullet base will fail to obturate and the bullet will lead in the throat every time. It is a pain in the ass to remove. 12BHN is perfect for standard pressure .45ACP and I run these 200s about 950-975 fps with 0 problems. the 230s i run at around 850 with no issues as well. Higher pressure rounds like the .40 S&W and the 9mm do well with 18BHN because the pressures are enough to obturate the bullet bases and create a gas seal.

    With commercial cast bullets, if you experience leading the bullet is most likely too hard.
  6. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    Well I am getting an education and things are starting to make sense. The leading was with the Gold Cup and it's light recoil spring and I was loading those lead bullets lightly at 650 to 700 range. I never tried any lead in it at any thing near 900fps because of the spring. I would put an 18lb spring in when I shot some factory stuff and got a 14lb variable to try but haven't done much with it. The main reason I got the Ruger was to get a 1911 that I could shoot normal loaded cartridges. So things are adding up as to what caused the leading problems. I am looking forward to shooting the lead in the range you suggest in the Ruger and will be a happy camper if I can with out leading as they are much cheaper. Thanks for the education Josh. I am old but not too old to learn.

    The last 24 hours have not been good. Had a leak in the bathroom sink, broke my sunglasses and loaded five of those bullets with out powder and had to pull them and do it over. Gees and I get another year older next week. That leaving the powder out really scared me as I have never done a stupid thing like that before. Got to be careful with this stuff as that is how accidents happen.

    Thanks again Josh I really appreciate the help.
  7. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    LD, been there done that and it is not fun trying to get that lead out. I have a Lewis lead remover but it would not clean it all out and I too had to resort to a pick and that is a pain. Hopefully I can learn enough from Josh to get this to the point I too can shoot lead and not get leading. Thanks for the input LD.
  8. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    I prefer lead because its too soft to wear out a barrel. Jacketed bullets are 100 BHN or harder and over time thats why barrels shoot out. Lead simply makes a barrel last forever.

    The fact that cast lead is far cheaper than jacketed or even plated is just a bonus.
  9. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    ANd if you want to run those slow target velocities Todd you can do it with a cast bullet it just has to be a soft enough alloy to seal the bore. At 650-700 youre probably running 14000 PSI and wouldnt need a bullet harder than 8 or 10 BHN. 6 is pure lead, so it wouldnt be but a pot of pure lead with a pinch of tin to sweeten the lead a bit.

    Problem is finding a commercial casting company that will custom make bullets that soft for you. The only option is Hornady swaged lead bullets they are dead soft and can be ran at low velocities with no leading. Thats what they are designed for.
  10. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    More learning. I stayed away from the swedged bullets thinking that would make the problem worse, ha. But at the same time I wondered how the bullseye shooters got away with it. That was all in the pre TFF days when I was wondering the wilderness with out any one to guide me. Thanks Josh again and again.
  11. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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  12. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Also they need a good bullet lube. LLA and the dry teflon Hornady uses is excellent for low velocity loads. For std velocity and magnums you need a better lube in a grease ring. And if the velocity is much over 1400 fps you will want a gascheck.

    The cool hing about gaschecks is they can, so long as you use a properly sized and lubed bullet, allow you to run a softer bullet at higher pressure so the bullet will expand. When i had my .480 ruger I was running 15 BHN cast 325 gr FN gaschecks at 1530 fps. These giant monoliths were already hitting the target at .475" in diameter and were ending up just over and inch in diameter in a water barrel test. looked like silver dollars with a copper gascheck on the bottom.
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