CALLING CRUSTY - GOT ONE FOR YA'!

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by cointoss2, Mar 4, 2003.

  1. cointoss2

    cointoss2 Guest

    kdub01
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    (4/11/02 10:43:03 pm)
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    OK, My Man -

    Lady friend of my daughter wanted me to find out what was wrong with a pistol her grandfather had brought back from Europe in WWII. It's a SPANISH!! Astra 300 (9mm Kurtz), UNCETA Y COMPANIA S A, GUERNICA ESPANA, with the ASTRA logo'd wreath on muzzle end of the slide. All matching numbers, Ser # 5874xx, very small swastki on right rear of frame with what appears "Wa4251" underneath. Left rear of frame has a helmeted shield with "X" in it, a hyphanated "N" and and ordnance bomb with a "P" in it.

    Any idea of the Nazi markings and when it was made? How 'bout a value - remarkably has at least 85% to 90% bluing left (very dark, almost black), original wooden grip panels with still sharp checkering. A plain dull black holster - no markings - and had a small piece of old paper shoved down in the bottom with the penciled name "WHYLE" printed on it.

    Tho't this might turn your crank a little!!! Oh, yeah! As near as I can tell, she's shooting Blazer .380 ammo and figure there might be a light hammer fall, as she says there is the occassional failure to fire. Everything checks out well mechanically as far as I can tell, without range test firing it. Will try some different ammo and see if that helps.

    Edited by: kdub01 at: 4/11/02 11:46:07 pm

    Flhunter
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    (4/11/02 11:23:59 pm)
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    Re: CALLING CRUSTY - GOT ONE FOR YA'!
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    The Wa4251 is probably WaA 251 and indicates factory Unceta y Compania S.A. that was located in Guernica.

    The shield with the "X" is a Spanish admission proof. I'm not sure what it means though.

    The hyphanated "N", does it have a * above it? If so that is the date code. It will put it in the year of 1942.







    The Curio and Relic Firearms Forum

    Edited by: Flhunter at: 4/12/02 12:26:26 am

    kdub01
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    (4/11/02 11:54:36 pm)
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    Yup - Good call, FLhunter. The stamp IS "WaA25l" under the swastki. (Tiny letters and old eyes!)

    Nope - no astrisk above the "N".

    Thanks for the info. Value?

    Edited by: kdub01 at: 4/12/02 12:57:14 am

    Flhunter
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    (4/12/02 2:09:37 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: CALLING CRUSTY - GOT ONE FOR YA'!
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    Hmmm no astrisk. It still might be the date code. The year is correct for the Nazi proofs. BobinStLouis will know for sure what the "N" is for.

    Value..I can't touch this one, because as I understand it, the prices on these Astra with Nazi markings are going thru the roof. BobinStLouis or AntiqueDr should know.






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    Bob In St Louis
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    (4/12/02 6:23:06 pm)
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    It was probably a 1942 date code. Astra Model 300s in serial number range 585,501 to 589,500 were delivered to the Nazis on August 10, 1943.

    Blazer ammo sucks. Use any other brass-cased 380 ACP ammo and it will probably work fine.

    As to price - Oye Vey! These pieces in that condition are going over $450 to $600 on the auction sites. Last few I have seen at gun shows have been around the $450 range.

    Tell her to take good care of it because it is a good investment piece.

    P.S. - The Spanish N with a tilde over it (pronounced "N-yay") is a 1943 production code - so that fits the serial number range. The little "*" over it is probably so faint you can't see it. The shield with an "X" in it surmounted by a knight's helmet is the late Eibar House Proof - Mark of admission to proof. It was used from July 9, 1931 to present. The bomb with "P" in it is a Late Eibar Automatic Pistol Proof used from December 14, 1929 to present.

    Clean it thoroughly, lightly lubricate it, use brass-cased ammo, and that puppy will likely work like a champ.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    Edited by: Bob In St Louis at: 4/12/02 9:13:00 pm

    kdub01
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    (4/12/02 11:33:18 pm)
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    Got it disassembled to the tinest pin and spring - followed directions in a very old disassembly book on the shelf and really had no problems at all.

    Everything that was large enough to be stamped with tiny numbers had the last three digits of the serial number.

    Don't think it had been taken apart since being brought home. Had dried up oil that had turned to shellac and took some diligent rubbing with penetrating oil to dissolve. Slicked up real nice and was (shamefaced!!!!) amazed at the quality of workmanship throughout and the general design concept.

    Bore is a little rough, not much I can do about that, except use some JB. Must have shot some corrosive primers years ago and didn't get it cleaned out thoroughly. It isn't real bad, just roughened up enough so as not to be pristine shiny.

    Thanks for the help, FL and Bob - I'll pass the word along to the lady - I'm sure she will appreciate it.

    Ken

    polishshooter
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    (4/13/02 8:24:58 pm)
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    Kdub, look REAL close to make sure she's firing the right size buddits through that barrel...


    And Kdub? Ask her if she has a Mosin Nagant you can look at for her so you can be that way again....















    "Shamefaced" after seeing the quality...
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    kdub01
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    (4/13/02 10:17:18 pm)
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    Uh, Polish -

    Don't think I'll have a real problem there, considering the MN's I've seen up close and personal to date!

    Must admit tho - sure are some fine specimens of pry bars!!!!
    (Heh, heh, heh!!!!)

    polishshooter
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    (4/13/02 11:35:47 pm)
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    But what about the BUDDIT size...

    And like anything else Russian, you HAVE to take them apart and see how they work to be impressed...for example, compare the total number of PARTS in MN to a mauser, or an 03, hell, the bolt ALONE can't even compare...And the bolt stop? On the Mauser it's a seperate assembly, with three parts and a screw....on the Mosin it's a tit on the sear spring..."0" parts for the same function....and the interrupter on the feed system...INGENIOUS, the best ever for rimmed rounds...just combine it with the ejector, use THAT spring and screw to do double duty....

    Just like the Makarov pistol...compare it to say a Walther...you wonder how they could make a more accurate, more reliable pistol with less than half the parts....and why didn't anybody ELSE think of that?

    Admit it Kdub, you LIKE them....
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    kdub01
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    (4/14/02 12:27:03 am)
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    ------------------------------------Wha????

    An' what 'bout the buddits? .380 ACP is the samo, samo as 9mm Kurtz, 9x17mm, or .380 Automatic. Is there somthin' wrong with this picture?

    Edited by: kdub01 at: 4/14/02 1:37:12 am

    Bob In St Louis
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    (4/14/02 9:10:44 am)
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    If it is marked "9mm Kurz" or "9mm Corto" you are perfectly fine as it is a 380ACP. Some of the Astra 300s were chambered for 7.65mm (32 ACP) and will be marked "7.65". According to production records, the block of serial numbers that this one falls in should be 380ACP.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    polishshooter
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    (4/14/02 11:42:38 am)
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    I was referring to somebody we both know and love who shot the wrong size buddits from his rifle for a year or so and couldn't figger out why it was so darn inaccurate until he slugged the barrel...


    Hey, I gotta get some licks in when I can!
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (4/14/02 6:41:30 pm)
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    OH! I GET YOUR DRIFT NOW!!!!!

    OK, so I'm a little dense at time. You've been alluding to the infamous 6.5mmx.257 AI that swagged .264 buddits down to .257 at over 3000 fps for a couple of years before a light dawned and bore diameter was checked!

    Yup - have ascertained this lady does, indeed have a .380 auto chambered firearm. See - it says "9mmKurtz" right there on the barrel when the action is closed! ('sides that, I miked the bore and the loaded ammo!)

    Plan on a range session with them Tuesday morning. Gonna have the daughter get acquainted with her grandpappy's old Colt Police Positive .38 Spl and then let her keep it for home protection. Got some new Win and Rem .380 Auto for the lady friend to shoot. I'm taking my .380 Makarov (love that gun!) and Keltec P-11 9mm - only "plastic" gun I own. Was thinking of taking the S&W (1971 purchase) Mod 66 in .357 Mag, but am also considering that I'll have to clean all these others when done!

    Bob In St Louis
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    Posts: 2153
    (4/14/02 8:17:22 pm)
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    I've got a S&W Model 66 with a 2.5 inch barrel - real hoot to shoot full house 357 Mags in that thing! Especially when it is dark out ----
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!
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