Cartridge Chamberings?

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by johnlives4christ, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

    Apr 28, 2008
    okay, i have some dumb questions.... i know you can shoot a 22 short or long in a long rifle gun.... and i know you cant shoot a 22 long rifle in a 22wmr.

    you can put 38's in a 357. well how about 38 short/long colts out of a 357 or 38 special?

    are there any other calibers that you can do this with. i know you can do 44 special in a 44 mag, what about 44 mag in a 454?

    im just curious on this subject so anyone that knows anything about it please inform.

  2. pkcgbifaid

    pkcgbifaid Member

    Nov 12, 2003
    Charleston, WV

  3. muddober

    muddober Active Member

    Sep 19, 2008
    Carson City Nevada
    John, you CAN shoot 38 short or long Colts in a 38 special or 357 mag because all measure .357 but never the other way around. You cannot shoot 44 Mag which measures .429 in what I am assuming you mean a 454 Casull and the answer is NO.

  4. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    The above link does not, to my mind, answer the question. It's more of a "name interchangeability chart". For example - 380 = 9mm Browning Short = 9mm Corto = 9mm Kurz = 9x17mm = 380 ACP. All different names for the same cartridge.

    What was asked, if I read it correctly, was "what can you safely shoot in there, that the gun was not chambered for?"

    22 Short in a 22 Long. Both of them in 22 Long Rifle.

    32 S&W in a 32 S&W Long. Both of them in 32 H&R. All three in 327 Federal.

    32 ACP in a 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R or 327 Federal. It should NOT be fired in a 32 S&W. It is too long and too powerful. In both of my 32 S&Ws it will not chamber, but it might in some of the cheaper guns. If it will chamber, and you fire it, you can severely damage your gun.

    32 Colt in a 32 Long Colt.

    32 Colt New Police is another name for 32 S&W Long, and the ammo is interchangeable. It is NOT the same as 32 Colt or 32 Long Colt.

    38 Colt in 38 Long Colt. Both in 38 Special. All three in 357 Magnum. All four in 357 Maximum. All five in 357 Supermag.

    38 Colt New Police is another name for 38 S&W. They are interchangeable, but neither will work in a 38 Special gun. It is not the same as 38 Colt.

    41 Colt in a 41 Long Colt.

    44 Russian in 44 Special. Both in 44 Magnum. All three in 454 Supermag (only chambered in Dan Wesson guns, if I remember right).

    45 Colt in a 454 Casull. Both in a 460 S&W.

    480 Ruger in a 475 Linebaugh.

    45/70 in a 45/90. Both in a 45/110.

    I'm sure there are others, but these are the ones I could think of.

    Notice that I listed them all in an order. Short to long. You can go up, but you can't go down. You can shoot 44 Russian in a 454 Supermag, but you cannot shoot 454 Supermag in a 44 Russian.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
  5. pkcgbifaid

    pkcgbifaid Member

    Nov 12, 2003
    Charleston, WV
    Alpo, thanks for the time you took putting it together! The listed link has both the name interchangablility AND the cartridge interchangability, but I admit it is not nearly as well layed out as what you put together here, nor is it as complete.
  6. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

    Apr 28, 2008
    hello alpo, thank you and everyone else for trying to help in my question. i guess i should have been a little more thorough as to my question.

    the reason it sparked my insterest was that i have an old 38 long colt, and it fit fine in my 357, and i knew it was much less powerful, but i didnt know about things like diameter so i thought it might bust a casing or something.

    concerning the quote , i wanted to say? how can you shoot a 32ACP in a 32 s&w long? the reason i ask is, if i recall correctly the 32 S&W is a rimmed cartridge, while the 32 acp is a Semi rimmed or rimless as it's sometimes called.

    one thing i was wondering about is if i could shoot 357 mag in a 357 maximum. i haven't ever seen a gun in 357 max, but i know ruger made the blackhawk in it for a while. and knowing i can use the 357 in it, should i ever run across one, it will greatly persuade me to try and get it.

    the reason i had asked about the 454 casull was that i have considered a ruger redhawk in that chambering and was wondering if there was anything that was cheaper to shoot that i could shoot through it. 45 colt is quite a bit cheaper then 454

    i think this knowledge of cartridge interchangability is important, but it is something that is relatively obscure in the shooting world (atleast mine).

  7. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    When the all-wise JMB;) invented the 25 auto and the 32 auto, he intended for them to headspace on the mouth. He found that they were too small in diameter to reliably do so, however. But, knowing that a rimmed cartridge would cause feeding problems in a stacked magazine, he came up with one of his genius ideas. Semi-rimmed. It had just enough rim to catch the mouth of the chamber (providing reliable headspacing) while not getting "rim-locked" in the magazine (providing reliable feeding). The 25 needed it. The 32 needed it. And he put it on the 38 (that's 38 ACP, not to be confused with 380 ACP), which did not need it. When he made the 380, he made it rimless, because he had found out (from the 38 ACP) that it was unneccessary.

    Because of the semi-rim, the 32 ACP will work in the 32 revolvers. There is enough rim to catch hold of the chamber mouths.

    The 38 ACP (by the way) was later hot-rodded and renamed the 38 Super. So you can shoot 38 ACP (if you can find the obselete expensive things) in your 38 Super automatic. It probably won't have enough power to operate the slide, but it will shoot in it. Putting 38 Super ammo in a 38 ACP pistol (where it will fit perfectly) however, will cause you mass pain as your pistol disintegrates in your hand.
  8. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2008
    i have shot 40's in my 10mm autos.
  9. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2004
    Goodyear, Arizona
    I didn't see this adressed ( from the OP ) Yes, you can fire a 22 LR in a 22 magium, but you are asking for trouble. The case will split and there is the possibily of blowback. It is not recommened.
  10. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    very well said Alpo, I must also add to this fine information some cartridge interchangeability...

    The cartridge groups listed in groups are all interchangeable within groups so long as the markings on the firearm match at least one of the cartridge names listed...

    .22 rem. jet/.22 jet/ .22 rem. centerfire mag.

    .223 rem/ 5.56mm/ 5.56X45/ 5.56 Nato

    .22 savage hi-power/ 5.6X52mmR

    25-20/ 25-20 wcf/ .25-20 win./ 25-20 rem./ .25-20 marlin/ .25 wcf (***)
    *** these cartridges are not interchangeable with the .25-20 single shot***

    6mm rem./ .244 rem.

    .25acp/ .25 auto/ 6.35 browning

    .250 savage/ .250-3000

    .257 roberts/ .257 rem.

    7mm mauser/ 7X57

    .280 rem/ 7mm rem exp.

    30-30 win/ .30-30 savage/ .30-30 marlin/ .30 wcf

    7.62X39/ 7.92mm russian short/ 7.62mm M43

    7.62mm russian long/ 7.62X54R

    .30-06/ .30 M2/ .30-06 govt./ .30-06 sprg./ .30 G 1906/ 7.62X63mm

    .30-40 krag/ .30 army

    .308 win/ .308 wcf/ 7.62 nato/ 7.62X51mm

    .30 mauser pistol/ 7.63mm mauser/ 7.62X25mm/ 7.62mm type P

    .30 mauser rifle/ .30 belgian mauser/ 7.65mm argentine

    .32 auto/ .32 acp/ 7.65mm auto/ 7.65 browning

    .32 s&w long/ .32 colt new police/ .32 colt police positive

    .32-20/ .32 wcf

    .303 brit/ 7.7X58R/ 7.7 jap rimmed

    7.7mm jap/ 7.7mm arisaka/ .31 jap/ .30 jap

    8mm mauser/ 8X57/ 7.92X57/ 7.9 mauser

    8mm lebel/ 8X51 R french

    9mm luger/ 9mm parabellum/ 9X19/ 9mm auto

    .380 auto/ .380 acp/ 9mm short (corto/kurz)/ 9mm browning

    .38 spec./ .38 colt spec./ .38 s&w spec.

    .38 s&w/ .38 colt new police/ .380 welby/ .380 revolver mk. 1/ .38-200

    .38-40/ .38 wcf

    .44-40/ .44 wcf/ .44 win./ .44 marlin/ .44 rem.

    .45 auto/ .45 acp/ 11.25mm colt/ .45 cal. M1911

    .45-70/ .45-70 govt./ .45-70 win/ .45-70 marlin/ .45-70-405

    once again, these cartridge groups listed above represent interchangeability within groups. Some of the nomenclature listed represents obsolete cartridges and/or foriegn manufacture not intended for the american market. Its the shooters responsibilty to ensure the markings on his/her firearm match that of the ammunition intended for use.
  11. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    hope the info above helps clarify the purpose of the web-link listed above, all information was taken from my cartridge interchangeablilty chart hanging on my wall over my loading desk...
  12. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    Consistently? Magazine after magazine after magazine? I can think of two ways that a 40 would fire in a 10mm.

    Either it was seated all the way forward, so that the round was headspacing on the case mouth, leaving a massive amount of space behind the case, and the firing pin was long enough to reach over that distance and fire the round. This would batter the case and be hard on the gun.

    Or it was held back against the bolt face by the extractor hook. This should fire, but I wouldn't think it would have the force to work the slide.

    I fired a 380 in a 40 S&W one time. One time. A friend of mine fired 5 357s in my Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 magnum, once. Once.
  13. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

    Apr 28, 2008
    well since i know that the 357 max would safely shoot 357 mag... and i know they made ruger blackhawks in 357max. what would be the dangers of putting 357 max in my 357 chambered blackhawk? the gun would be strong enough to handle it , and the round indexes off the rim, not the shoulder. any thoughts on this one?

  14. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    357 Maximum is too long to chamber in a 357 Magnum chamber. That was done intentionally, to prevent people doing something stupid like putting a 50,000 psi cartridge in a gun designed for 35000 psi cartridges.

    What part of this are you having trouble understanding? >Notice that I listed them all in an order. Short to long. You can go up, but you can't go down. You can shoot 44 Russian in a 454 Supermag, but you cannot shoot 454 Supermag in a 44 Russian.<
  15. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    Easy brother. Lets try not to discourage the less learned from continuing thier search to better understand something. I know its frustrating when someone doesnt see or understand why things work the way they do, but with time, patience, and good information most will learn to understand. John, hes right, firearms are chambered for a specific cartridge, not many cartridges. Some cartridge chambers permit the use of SHORTER cartridges of the same caliber (bullet size) but never longer ones, and ALL chambers that do permit the use of shorter cartridges are designed to headspace on the RIM of the cartridge. The reason longer chambers will accept shorter cartridges, is because when a chamber is reamed into a barrel it is stepped up at the end of the chamber, this stepped up area is called the throat of the barrel and is the spot the case stops at and the bullet starts at. the reason a .357 max can chamber and safely fire a .357 mag. and a .38 spec. is because they all utilize a .357 bore diameter and shoot the same diameter bullets. The .357 mag and the .38 spec. are not anywhere close to touching the throat, and since the cartridge headspaces off the rim you can close the action and fire the cartridge SAFELY, but not always accurately. The .357 maximum cartridge is nearly twice as long as a .357 magnum cartridge, and the .38 special cartridge is 1/10 of an inch shorter than the .357 magnum cartridge. This in a perfect example of the cartridge designers desire to insulate himself from a lawsuit. long cartridges simply will not chamber in a short chamber. Dont be foolish with your firearms, I have seen many needlessly destroyed firearms im my short time as a gunsmith. If you want to shoot .454 casulls, buy a .454 casull pistol. Save yourself some embarassment at the very least. So far all of the owners of the destroyed guns weren't hurt and its funny to me that all of them claim to have gotten it back from a buddy that way;)
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