Cartridge Chamberings?

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by johnlives4christ, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

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    no not consistantly. but i wanted to try and see if my 1076 would and it does shoot .40's. i may have shot better than half a box out of it. good to know if your in a pinch. You are also correct that not all of the rounds cycled but most did. if you had a 610 i imagine you could shoot .40's all day long out of it.
  2. Lunicy

    Lunicy New Member

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    My money says The extractor will hold the round. BTW The extractor on a .40s&w will hold a 9mm. It will fire a 9mm.

    (It wasn't mine, and I tried to explain to the DIC.. I mean gentleman that it wasn't a good idea. He informed me that he had been doing it for a long time and it's fine.)

    I watched him do it a few times then shook my head and left. Something about hot gases blowing back into my face didn't appeal to me.
  3. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    thanks everyone for helping me to better understand what i can and cannot do.

    i got another dumb question.... dont get all upset at me either :p for asking. since i have a blackhawk in 357 and i know they chambered blackhawks for 357 max... would it be safe to handload 357 mag cartridges to the pressures of the 357 max? would the gun take it? would the casings crack or something?

    okay... now, im not into reloading, but i am looking into it... and i always ask a bunch of dumb questions before i get into anything new... or before i do anything stupid lol. thats why im here.
    ~john
  4. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    NO. and for several reasons. .357 mag brass is suited to the pressures intended for the .357 magnum. if you up the ante 20,000 psi you would likely melt the brass or have a severe blowout at the primer pocket. or melt the brass and have a blowout and extrude the hot metal everywhere. And thats saying the weapon will indeed hold up to the pressures. It very well may not. Just because ruger made a blackhawk in .357 max at one time doesnt mean they hold all thier revolvers to the same strength requirements. In my opinion the .357 max is better suited to rifles because of the velocity and pressure it produces. Like i have advised before, if you want .357 max performance trade your .357 mag. in and find a .357 max revolver. I understand the way you percieve this. It wasnt all that long ago that I too thought bigger was better etc. etc. etc. But it really is quite the contrary. Rest assured the .357 mag will do everything it is intended to do quite efficiently, that is why it has outlived the .357 max. I would suggest you take your .357 mag afield with full power hunting loads and kill a hog or a deer, cut him open afterwards and inspect the damage its capable of, it really is quite impressive for such a small cartridge...
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
  5. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    thanks jla for answering my questions. i have some basic knowledge of firearms and some of firearms history, but this kind of detailed knowledge eludes me because i dont have any shooting buddies that have any knowledge of firearms. for some reason i was thinking that because they once chambered the blackhawk for the 357 max i could load 357 to that pressure. but i see now why that theory is wrong. i also see that, even though i know a little bit about firearms, i need to know much more. i want to learn everything there is to know about them honestly, i've been facinated with guns ever since i was 17 and my parents wouldnt let me have a 22 rifle... when i turned 18 i bought one against their will and have been facinated with them ever since.

    ~john
  6. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    I know a feller who had a model 24 Smith, 44 special. He wanted to turn it into a 44 magnum. "No problem. Just get a chamber reamer and make the chambers a little longer, so the magnums will fit. After all, that's the only difference. They're both Smith and Wesson N frames, right?"

    No. Smith is in the business to make money. That means they are not going to spend more than they need to. 44 Special has a pressure of around 15,000 psi, so they heat treat the cylinder to take, maybe 20,000 psi pressure. There is no need to make it any stronger. You put 44 magnums, that run around 35,000 psi, in it and it explodes when you shoot it. If you want a 44 magnum, buy a 44 magnum.

    "Oh. Okay, that makes sense. Well, how's this idea? I picked up a model 27 cylinder in trade. 357 runs with the same pressures that 44 magnum does. I take the 357 cylinder and have it bored out to 44 magnum? It's an N frame magnum cylinder, so it should be fine, right?"

    No. One of the reasons the 357 cylinder will take the pressure is the amount of metal around the holes. Drill that 3/8 inch chamber hole out to 15/32 and you have less metal around the hole. Now it won't take 35,000 psi pressures. 44 magnum cylinders are treated differently than 357 cylinders. If you want a 44 magnum, buy a 44 magnum.

    "So how's this? I'll get a 44 magnum cylinder. That's made to take the 35,000 psi pressure, even with the big holes. I'll slap that in my 24, and I'll be good to go. N frame is an N frame, right?"

    No. Back to the money thing. Smith heat treated the 24's frame to take the pounding of firing 44 specials. Start shooting 44 magnums in it and even though the cylinder will hold together, the frame will start to stretch. If you want a 44 magnum, buy 44 magnum.

    Haven't seem him for a while. Hope he either got over his need for a 44 magnum, or bought a 44 magnum, instead of trying to make one of his other guns do what it wasn't designed to do.
  7. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    it never occured to me that the metal would be differant in such situations. thats a good point to make alpo. i have heard about people taking nef handi rifles and reaming them out longer to take bigger calibers of the same diameter. do you think this idea would be foolish as well?
  8. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Depends. Now, you can get one of them NEFs in 308, and then later get a 12 gauge barrel to put on it. No problem with that. That receiver built to take 50,000 psi pressures will love that 14,000 psi shotgun. Some folks say you can get one made for a shotgun and put a rifle barrel on it. That's asking for a hospital stay, in my opinion.

    Now, if you took that same 308 rifle barrel, and reamed it out to 30/06 (assuming there is enough metal in the "chamber section" of the barrel to ream that far), then you should be all right, as 308 and 30/06 are both the same diameter case and approximately the same pressure load. If you tried to ream it to 300 Weatherby Magnum, on the other hand, you're asking for trouble. Same if you tried to ream a 45/70 to 458 Win Mag. Same size bullet, but you are probably gonna lose an eye when that thing blows up.
  9. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    thanks for the advise
  10. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    check out hubel458's "12 ga. FH" thread... its here in the ammo forum somewheres. That guy has put some scary stuff down the tube of a handi rifle. seems those handi rifles and cockroaches are going to be the only survivors of the next nuclear explosion...
  11. BIGBOOMER

    BIGBOOMER New Member

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    Regarding shooting a 40 S&W in a 10mm Autopistol: Sometimes possible, but not reliable, not advised. SA revolver: NO. DA revolver: With moonclips, go for it. The 10mm can be fired without the clips (you might need a stick to aid extraction), but the 40 must have clips fired in the 10.

    The 38 ACP can be fired in a 38 Super (may or may not cycle), but to fire a 38 Super in an old 38 ACP is to invite disaster. Either can be fired in a 357 revolver, or a large frame 38 Special.

    The 30 Mauser (7.63x25) and the 30 Tokarev (7.62x25) both share the same case but the latter is loaded to a higher pressure. 30 Mauser in 30 Tok, but NOT vice-versa.

    The 44 Russian can be fired in a German 11mm revolver, but I would not do it the other way around. The cases are practically the same, but the German round has a slightly larger bullet diameter.

    The 38 S&W and the British 380 revolver cartridge as used in Webley Mk4, Enfield, and S&W "victory model" are interchangable. To confuse things a little, the older British 380 as used in 19th century guns, was the same as the 38 Short Colt, NOT interchangable with the 38 S&W.

    The 38 Short Colt may or may not work in the Japanese 9mm revolver, depending on the headspace of the individual gun. The Jap cartridge had a thinner rim, but some of their revolvers had enought headspace for the Colt cartridge.

    The 45 S&W can be fired in a 45 Colt, but not vice-versa. This would have been a mute point a few years ago, but the S&W cartridge is now being loaded again for cowboy action shooters.

    The 44 Colt, as now loaded, fits in the 44 hierachy as follows: 44 Russian, 44 Colt, 44 Special, 44 Magnum.

    If anyone has an old Merwin & Hulbert 32 Long (7-shot on a 38 frame) revolver, it is the same cartridge as the 32 S&W Long, although it preceded the S&W cartridge by a dozen years.

    Well, just a few more here. I'm sure there are others I forgot.

    Best regards, BIGBOOMER
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