Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by thunderchild223, Mar 23, 2012.

  1. thunderchild223

    thunderchild223 New Member

    Feb 27, 2012
    a friend told me i didnt need to run a brush with copper remover on it through my rifle to clean it. said to just run a few patches through it and it would be fine. ive always run a brush through it and then patches till they come out clean...... so what do you do?
  2. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2009
    SW Fort Worth
    If you see any greenish blue when you run the copper solvent, it's a clear indicator that you need to keep cleaning. I'd take your friends gun and run some copper solvent in it; if it comes out dirty, you can inform him that copper fouling is not beneficial to accuracy. I don't clean extensively after every outing, if it's only a few shots, then a couple of patches and some butch's boreshine is all it takes for me.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012

  3. BETH

    BETH Well-Known Member

    Jul 10, 2009
    i run a bore snake then patches and oil
  4. Rocketman1

    Rocketman1 Well-Known Member

    Jan 1, 2010
    Columbus, Ohio
    I don't use a brush every time, it depends on the outing. I was taught to never run a brush down the barrel first. I always start with a patch dipped in solvent, followed by a clean patch every time I go down the barrel untill they come out dry and clean. Dont use to much solvent, only what the patch will absorbe, it should not be dripping. To much solvent can drip into the trigger mechanism and gum it up. I run the rod through from the chamber end, because if you run from the muzzzle end you will deposit dirt into the chamber or receiver, which should be relatively clean. I also take care to make sure the tip and rod are centered and do not touch the barrel, because it will scratch it.
  5. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2003
    Hesperia, CA
    Questions on how to clean a gun will get you a hundred different response. I have known competitors that NEVER clean their gun and those that clean them after every few shots (bench rest shooters). Question about which rod to use or rod ends or patches or solvents will also get you lots of opinion. Some prefer the pull through OTIS system, or the patch worm.

    As for using a brush or not Volquartsen says never while other manufacturers say do it, just not a hard brush like a stainless steel brush.

    There are many different solvents: good old Hoppe's #9, copper solvents, water based soap solvents, combination CLP (clean, lubricate, protect) liquids, ammonia based solvents, a foam solvent, and on and on. There is even a reverse electro-chemical tool you can use.

    When you try to get info from manufacturers you get the same variety of answers. So what to do?

    Find a method that works for you, is easy, something you will do regularly, and do it often, as once you start piling on powder residue and cover it with copper over and over, it is very difficult to remove.

    Does cleaning effect accuracy.? Sometimes if the barrel gets too fouled but I have some ex-mIlitary guns whose barrels look doubtful that shoot very well.

    So who really knows? I clean after every shooting session. I use all of the common solvents for various guns. I use the pull through OTIS system on my 22's and I never use a brush in my Volquartsen barrel (as per their directions). But at some point in the cleaning of a tough barrel, I give up and pronounce it good enough. Some barrels clean easily. Some require coper solvents (rifle cartridges). but I do use a brush on every gun except my Volquartsen 22 barrel. But hey, that's just what I do. Others have their regime.

  6. Charles Christensen

    Charles Christensen New Member

    Nov 13, 2011
    I have been shooting auto pistols, not rifles lately but it should be similar.

    I start with a patch wet with EEZOX and run it through the barrel from chamber to muzzle. I have a large set of TIPTON jags and bronze brushes so I have a choice for a snug fit. The jags are those round things that push the patch through, not the ones you have to fold and thread the patch through a slot on the end. This gives a firm fit all around. After the first pass I pull the rod back out without the patch then reverse the patch and push the clean(er) side through.

    Then I switch to a bronze brush, wet it with EEZOX and do a few back-and-forths. I then repeat the patch routine with a new patch. This seems to be very effective. The bore is shiny and slick. The EEZOX is rated as a solvent, lubricant and rust preventive so I leave the barrel alone after the above procedure and give the rest of the gun some attention.

    Use whatever products you like but a gun that gets regular attention should not be a bear to clean with any of the stuff on the market today.

    I would also opine that a gun that has had a bit of firing done should be easier to clean. The slugs blasting down the barrel will have a wearing effect on the machining marks left by the manufacturing process and smooth the barrel over time and leave fewer microscopic protrusions to rip off jacket material.
  7. Barrel is steel, brush is copper, carbon and lead are softer than the steel. Go ahead and brush.
  8. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2007
    ND, USA
    Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet.
    If you're using a brush with a copper remover, use a nylon one. Otherwise, things will look "blue" forever as the copper remover dissolves the brush just like it does the copper fouling. Most copper fouling solvents state this right on the label too.
    A copper solvent is a very aggresive chemical solvent and no brushing is needed for general use.

    When using copper remover, use nylon or no brush.
    Using standard bore solvent...go ahead and brush as much as needed to clean the powder & lead fouling.
  9. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2003
    Hesperia, CA
    A couple of things:

    Volquartsen says NO brushing or the warrantee is void. They claim (with a bore scope??) they can see which barrels have been brushed and those that have not (??). While steel is harder than the bronze of the brush Volquartsen claims it still see marks the bore.

    What happens to bores that are not clean properly is you get alternating layers of fouling and copper. Once the layer of copper is removed it exposes a layer of fouling that the solvent does not always easily remove. The instructions that come with the electro-chemica reverse plating system has you go through alternate cycle of electrically removing the coper layer then using brushing and patch techniques to remove the fouling. If the bore is bad enough the process can become endless.

    Finally, a poorly cared for bore can have copious amounts of copper and powder fowling in it such that patches may never come out totally clean. Old military barrels are prime examples. Some of those shoot as well as they are able with some cleaning. Their bores are so rough that the fouling and copper builds up quickly even though you spent hours and hours trying to remove it all. The cleaning effort was almost a waste of time and effort.

  10. The_Rifleman

    The_Rifleman Active Member

    Feb 10, 2010
    Each of my rifles get a different cleaning method, it all depends on the type of bullet it shoots, and the amount of copper fouling it accumulates.

    My 22 gets a bronze brush soaked in penetrating oil; then a clean patch till relatively clean, then I swipe it with a 10w40 oiled patch to resist rust. I'll run a clean patch to remove the oil before firing.

    My Win 30-30 doesn't copper foul, so I'll clean just like the 22 above.

    My Howa 30-06 doesn't copper foul too much so I'll clean just like the 2 above then when I get enough copper to worry about, I'll clean for copper fouling.... I'll take a mop and dip it in my ammonia based copper cleaning solvent, (I have a small jar/bottle of it,) and run it down my bore, I'll usually do that 4 times then wait 5 to 10 minutes. Then run a clean patch down it. That usually gets it all out, then I'll clean for carbon fouling again, then add the 10w40 oil.

    My other rifles that copper foul more will get a few more episodes of copper cleaning, which I'll stop when the clean patch comes out light blue.

    I used to be like your friend, I only used patches for about 20 or so years, and developed a carbon ring in my bore near the throat. This pic shows where it used to be after a marathon cleaning with a bronze bore brush.


    It looks a lot better now that I've changed my cleaning regiment.
  11. Ed~

    Ed~ New Member

    Jan 24, 2012
    For those with more experience shooting and cleaning....

    I have often wondered why the T-handle of a cleaning rod doesn't imply it is designed to to pull a brush from breech to muzzle in a bolt-action rifle.

    What I mean is after removing the bolt from the breech, run the rod down the muzzle to the breech without the brush, screw on the brush on from the breech, and pull the brush through (rather than scrub back and forth).

    Of course it is simple and easy to push a pad through directly from the breech out the muzzle but a brush is much harder to "push" from breech than pull from the muzzle.

    Am I missing some action that risks wearing the crown at the muzzle by doing it this way?

    Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience.

    REPEATER Member

    Feb 19, 2012
    NW Indiana
    Re: For those with more experience shooting and cleaning....

    Just my opinion that although it is harder to push than to pull, the same force is needed either way. Only benefit I see by only brushing out is that all the debris you are clearing is coming out of the gun, rather than in. When the brush is being removed, the flicking of the bristles make the solvent and debris evident. I coat the brush in solvent, and run the brush completely through my bolt action, and back out. Letting the brush spin is the key going in. Nice smooth motions. I also take note of a firing pin if not removed (bolt) even then, I just take care not to ram rod it. i run patch after patch. sometimes as many as 10. then I soak one in oil. I hate ejecting issues and misloads so I clean all the tiny mechanisms at the firing pin as well. Debris = extra friction which creates premature ware. If you see it, clean it. If you dont, it must be clean. Take whatever measurements you need to in order to extend the life of your gun, increase it's reliabillity and of course accuracy. my 2 cents
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