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Colt M1911A1 U.S. Army

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6K views 31 replies 11 participants last post by  Archie 
#1 ·
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My Dad passed away some years ago and in his drawer, wrapped up carefully was a Colt M1911A1, which none of us knew he had, so consequently we know nothing about. Dad was in WWII and served in many campaigns, so I am not sure where he may have picked this up or if it was actually his. What I am hoping is that some of you experts can enlighten me as to what I may have here. I have heard of arsenal rebuilds and wonder if this is an original or a rebuild, the gun looks new and I do not think it has been fired or if it has, it certainly does not show it. I am a gun enthusiast, but I am the only one in the family, I am getting pressure to sell it, so I am very interested in its value and what I might expect to get for it or what I would owe my siblings if I decide to keep it. I have included a series of pictures of the overall gun and any markings I could find. Any help anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated. I notice that both the gun and magazine have lanyard loops, I have never seen that before.
Best regards
 

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#4 ·
What a BEAUTIFUL find.

I can get in touch with my buddy and have him look up the #s for you. Someone here will prob beat me to it.

BTW,

DIBS!!!.... If you're pressured to sell it.

I would never sell it, just so you know. It would be meticulously cared for. Im active duty Army and have LOVED these guns long before I joined.
 
#7 ·
Thanks, really appreciate it. I'll keep the dibs in mind. If I don't receive anymore info here as to history and value, I will try Colt. If it is in fact an arsenal rebuilt I am not really sure what that means in terms of collector value and value in general. Thanks again
 
#8 ·
Hi Bill:
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, it is a very nice gun. I do not think it was ever fired, at least in its current state. I am hoping to learn more about it .... collectors value and value in general. Not really a collector of sorts I am not certain I totally understand what an arsenal rebuild means in terms of value and collectability.
Best and thanks
Dave
 
#11 ·
Also found that the little crown with the "CP" under it indicates it was prob an export to Great Britain.

I'll have my hands on the book on saturday that shows all the proof marks.
 
#12 ·
Looking forward to finding out more about this Colt and what it might be worth if the experts have any opinion. It is hard to digest Fjestad with regard to this piece for me at least, and since it now appears that it is an arsenal rebuild what does that really mean and how does it effect the value.
Thanks to those taking the time to respond.
 
#13 ·
Military guns were sent in to various arsenals for service. Guns were rebuilt with whatever parts were there (not necessarily the same parts,) then refinished. 1911/1911a1 parts are interchangeable. I'm not a military collector. I'm sure someone else can explain it better than me.
 
#14 ·
OP asked for an estimate also for value. Most all WWII 1911's are arsenal worked pistols. That's what arsenals did during the war to have them working and able to be in service. I have seen pistols go in live auctions several times. Figure a close guess starting value at $2,000 and then work from that. It could go for more or maybe a little less, but that is realistic ballpark figure to base value research on. The last live estate auction I was at, the Remington 1911 that was up for auction sold for $2,500 to a bidder on the phone in Montana.
 
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#16 ·
Thank you WHSMITHIV - That is what I was looking for, an estimate and ball park. Question is I might. Was the Remington 1911 that went for $2500 in as good a shape as the one I am holding? My evaluation of this piece is pretty much 100%, I really do not think it has been shot after its rebuild, there is no indications that it was fired or if it was it was only shot a few times, but I really don't even see that. My Dad (step Dad actually) was a Dr. and my guess is this may have been an issue that he never fired, but I really have no way of knowing. Not sure what we are doing with it, but I am extremely intrigued with its history and of course its worth. Thanks again
 
#17 ·
The Remington that I watched get sold was in really nice condition and had original grips. Original bluing was 95% at least. WWII Remington 1911's are more rare than Colts since Remington wasn't the main manufacturer of the pistols. Singers in excellent condition sell in the 10's of thousands. The one you have certainly was fired even though it may not look like it. It may not have been fired very much but it will have been test fired. To get a real accurate value on it you'd need to take it to one of the auction houses that specializes in military firearms. The crown proofs on it could drive it's estimated collectors value up. For a general ball park starting figure though so you can square with your siblings the 2K value would be a fair point to work with. I was just doing a little looking around and I saw a 1943 M1911 with crown proof marks listed for sale at 3250. That's the asking price but, it hasn't sold for that. Value to a collector is what a collector will pay at the time of an auction. The GHD on the pistol is the inspectors stamp. There's a 1945 Colt for sale at Guns International for 2500 and change with it's holster. So, I don't think you'd be cheating your siblings if you paid them each a share of a 2K value.
 
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#18 ·
Just as an additional note, the crown proof marks were also used on guns that went to the Canadians. I'm not sure which those marks are.
 
#20 ·
You're welcome and thanks for posting the pictures. It's a really nice 1911 and they happen to be my favorite pistol of all time. I love seeing pictures of them in great condition. You're lucky to have it. If I found one in my Dad's drawer you can bet I wouldn't part with it either. I can guarantee though that when my Dad passes on there won't be any guns found in his belongings unfortunately.
 
#22 ·
Seriously, are refurb'ed 1911A1's bringing the kind of money be bantered around here?
Especially with mismatched parts. i.e. Hammer, Grips,a WW1 magazine and what else?
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but one shouldn't get their hopes too high.
It's an excellent example of a re-arsenaled A1, but the values given are closer to what I see on completely original examples in the same condition.

Actually I hope they are bringing that kind of money as I will have to re-evaluate my WW1 1911 that has made a trip through Augusta.
 
#24 ·
That's the nub of it also. Nothing is worth more than someone will pay for it.
 
#26 ·
Ah, since your relatives are pressuring you to sell, and not keep it in the family, I'd say it's worth around $1000 and work around that figure. With all deference to WHSMITH, yes it's possible it MIGHT fetch $2K in an auction, but we know auctions are very unpredictable. This one is interesting since it's got Brit proofs, but I wouldn't want to hold my breath on getting $2500 for it realistically. It is a Colt, a rework, and grips and hammer are replacements after all. No telling about internal parts.
 
#27 ·
Thanks Guys, I really appreciate the chats and information. I am glad that I learned some things about this pistol. I am a little disappointed, its funny when your mind starts running wild, I thought this may have been an original find, but what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense. My guess is since he was a Dr and also a marksman, that this actually might have been his sidearm, and didn't see any actual action due to when he was and what he did. Therefore the gun is priceless for that reason alone. I think an appropriate place for that may be in a shadow box with a name plate, unless you guys think I'm wrong about it being his issue.
Peace
 
#28 ·
Nobody here can tell you if it was his issue or not but the gun may have sentimental value none the less. You could take it to a gun show and see what kind of offers you get or list it on *********.com and set a reserve price and see what happens.
 
#30 ·
Oh yea, I would absolutely shoot it!
 
#32 ·
The pistol is NOT original. With the serial number showing a manufacturing date of 1944, and the relief cuts in the frame behind the trigger opening, it is an M1911A1 frame.

However, the grips are the style (perhaps not original) of the original 1911 type arm. Most of the arsenal rebuilds - which obviously had to occur AFTER 1944 for this pistol - replaced grips with the then current reddish-brown plastic grip panels. So I'm suspicious of the originality of the grips. (Which is not to say I don't like them. They are classic and functional.)

All the U. S. property Armed Forces pistols had lanyard loops in the mainspring housing. The lanyard on the magazine was initially used during the early days for pistols issued to cavalry (with real horses in those days) so the magazines were not lost when reloading. I'm not sure when that type of magazine was discontinued, but not long into the First World War, I believe. However, there have been some manufacturers since then who make 'reproductions' of that style magazine for the historical reenactment market. But I do not think they existed during the Second World War or for some time after.

Img 1377 shows a partial roll stamp of what I think was a Naval acceptance stamp. Which may indicate the pistol was once issued to the Navy or Marine Corps. Whether before or after re-build is not readily discernable; since the stamp seems (from the photo) to be finished over, I would guess prior to re-build.

The British markings on the barrel are curious. "Tons" is a very British measure of proof pressure, but my understanding is this unit of measure was not used (on proofs) until after WWI. Also in rebuild, barrels were commonly, but not universally replaced with new barrels which would not have had a British proof mark.

The hammer is the wide beaver-tail sort issued on early, 1911 pistols. However, the grip safety, and the trigger are the later 1911A1 design. The slide stop has checkering rather than simple serrations, so I would expect it to be the early 1911 type. (I can't see the manual safety well enough to tell.) The slide and sights appear to be the 1911A1 version - which would correspond with the serial number on the frame. This however means less in regard to a rebuild pistol.

The finish does not appear to be 'used' in the normal scope of an issued sidearm.

It is an odd pistol, in terms of provenance.

Still I would be delighted to have such a pistol in my collection. I like curiosities. Not to mention the family attachment, I am sure you want to maintain it.

However, unless one can come up with more solid information (copies of records of rebuild and release from service) or proof it was issued to Audey Murphy or Field Marshall Montgomery, I rather suspect the commercial, collector, market price to be in the $1500 to $2000 range at most. Simply because it is not - seemingly - a pristine 'original' configuration pistol.

I suggest checking your late Step father's records and seeing if he left any notes on the pistol. They could be invaluable.

Yes, it is shootable. However, do NOT carry it about in a holster and wear off the finish and make sure to clean the arm well after firing. Use standard 230 FMJ ammunition and it will probably shoot to the sights.
 
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