Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by AL MOUNT, Feb 9, 2007.

  1. Did Colt ever make an (exact copy) minature 1911 in .380 ?

    If so what was the name, it's not a Pony...

    Pony is DA hammerless

    I think Llama did.

    What is the name of it.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2007
  2. Yes, Llama did, Al. It was called the III-A, built on a scaled-down version of the 1911 frame. I have one in fact, but it is not the best made handgun I've ever seen. Mine won't digest anything but hardball reliably.

  3. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

    Dec 30, 2003
    houston, tx
    colt almost made one based a the star "starfire" design. the project was cancelled at the last minute but not before it was included in the colt 1971 catalog. there were even a few complete with colt marking (probably less than 50) that were actually sold, not by colt but by firearms international corp. of washington dc. FI was involved with the project as the go between for colt and star. F.I. eventually produced the pistol as the F.I. Model D and all of F.I. models i have encountered have a serial number prefix of c.a.p. the serial number with this prefix go up as high as 40,000, but i don't think that many were actually sold. in 1978 Iver Johnson purchased the rights to this pistol. iver johnson sold the pistol as the Model X300 pony between 1978 and the 1990s. the boxes F.I. used were the same one made up for colt very similar (but smaller) to the boxes colt used for their full size government model. these boxes are brown in color with a yellow F.I. label pasted on them. there must have been a lot of these boxes because Iver Johnson also used them for thier original production in the late 1978/79. the iver johnson brown boxes will have a white label pasted on them. this is an interesting pistol and there is information on it in my new iver johnson book but i do not believe the full story is fully known even at this late date.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2007
  4. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Feb 9, 2001
    Here at TFF
    The Colt in question is the Colt Mustang. Good little pistol.
  5. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

    I would love to have a Colt Mustang in good condition.

    SoMo and I saw one a couple years ago that was close to NIB, but we passed it up. Wish we'd grabbed it then as we probably won't see another as good and at a reasonable price again.
  6. Oneida Steve

    Oneida Steve Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2006
    Upstate NY
    Yep, Shooter45 is right. Colt Mustang .380 pistol. I've got one in nickel. Nice little gun. A local store had a blued one for sale (used) for $429. Crazy, but that's what they sell for now.
  7. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

    Colt also made the...
    Colt MK IV Series 80 Government Model 380.
  8. Thanks a lot guys.....:D

    Are the ones you mention, Mustang, I & J "pony" exact minature copies of the 1911 ?????
  9. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2006
    I'll bet you are gagging, having found out Colt was using a "junk" Star design!:rolleyes:
    The star Starfire DKL .380 was the basis for the original Pony.
    None of the Colt, Star, I.J., or F.I. guns was an exact copy of the 1911. The Llama was about as close as you can get.
  10. Thanks Bill,

    The Llama thing is pretty much what I'm finding out.

    Maybe I've got my old wires crossed on the Star,.....:D

    I could have sworn that brand was bad mouthed big time on some other forum.

    I could have the Star brand corn-fused with another,
  11. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2006
    The later Llamas were not as well made as the 1960s models.
  12. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

    No they aren't.

    For all intents and purposes, the Llama IIIa is an exact copy of the M1911A1 (about 2/3 scale). The only difference is the Colt has an internal extractor and the Llama has an external one. Otherwise, the Llama is a part for part copy.....just smaller.

    .....and being a copy of the M1911A1, it's one of only a very few .380's that fire from a locked breech.

    As for the IIIa only being able to feed and handle round-nosed bullets.....well, the knock on Llamas has always been their quality control, and certainly the machine work on the IIIa is not up to Colt standards, but it should respond to tuning the way a 1911 does. I suspect that if you carefully radius and polish the feed ramp, it should be able to feed most, if not all, .380 cartridges on the market.
  13. Interesting, X. I would love to get my III-A to be a bit more functional. Are any special tools needed to do the ramp polishing job, or is that something an amateur might do successfully? If so, how might I go about it? The III-A I have will sometimes FTE even with ball ammo. Yet, I must admit, I like the feel of the little gun and would shoot it more if it worked properly.
  14. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

    OK, you go. It's not hard, just time consuming.

    First and foremost.....DO NOT USE A DREML TOOL!

    The feed problems with 1911-type firearms can be the magazine, but with older GI 1911's and Llamas, it's usually the step up from the magazine feedwell into the chamber at the rear of the barrel. Roundnose usually feed fine, and anything with a flat on it often hangs up.

    Tools needed.....4 to 6 inch 5/16 to 3/8 inch dowel. 200, 400, & 600 grit sandpaper or crocus cloth and a can of compressed air.

    First, remove magazine, and lock the slide all the way back. With a small flashlight, look in thru the ejection port and note the relationship between the magazine feedwell and the rear of the chamber. There'll probably be quite a step there.

    Field strip the gun, and pin the barrel/chamber back onto the frame. Push the barrel/chamber all the way back and down so it's in the "feed" position. Run the ball of your little finger over the magazine well to chamber interface. You should be able to feel any rough spots, "steps", or sharp or square edges. Note where these are. You want to "radius" these (remove the rough or sharp edges).

    Remove the barrel/chamber from the gun. Wrap the 200 grit crocus cloth around the dowel, and very slowly and carefully start to smooth the sharp edges. Do this very slowly......remember, you can always take more metal off, but you can't add it back on!

    After you've slightly rounded the worst of the steps or sharp edges, test fit the barrel to the frame and feel it with ball of your little finger. (You may also have to remove a bit of metal from the magazine feedwell.) Then go to the 400 grit and do the same......then the 600 grit.

    The idea is to form a very smooth transition from the magazine feedwell into the bottom of the chamber.

    It's also not a bad idea to buy a box of the ammo you want to use, and "test fit" it. Load the mag and insert it into the frame. Push the barrel/chamber all the way down & back, and try to feed a cartridge into the chamber with your thumb.

    When you get it so rounds chamber well, completely disassemble the pistol, clean & lube it.

    Any questions?
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The 1911 Forum Colt 1911 Oct 10, 2016
The 1911 Forum Colt 1911 .45 1916 and light box May 11, 2016
The 1911 Forum Custom Colt Jan 20, 2016
The 1911 Forum old colt 1911 What Do I have Aug 10, 2015
The 1911 Forum Colt Series 70 Reproduction | Your Thoughts? Aug 5, 2015