Colts

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by Pistolenschutze, Oct 14, 2006.

  1. I've noticed that on this forum hardly anyone has anything to say about the Colt built 1911 pattern pistols. I see Kimbers, Springfields, and Wilsons mentioned, along with just about every other company that produces a 1911 pattern pistol, yet almost never the original manufacturer of such handguns, Colt out of Hartford Connecticut. Yes, I am aware that the Colt Co. of recent years has allegedly had manufacturing problems, but I don't think that total lack of quality is necessarily true, at least with regard to the older pistols, and possibly some of the newer ones as well. Colt does still produce and market the 1911, one of the few weapons it does still make. The two 1911s I own and shoot are both Colts, one a Commander Series 80, and the other a Gold Cup National Match and both have proven to be highly reliable and accurate handguns right out of the box.

    Input?
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2006
  2. Deputy Dawg

    Deputy Dawg Active Member

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    Maybe it may have something to do with them giveing into the anti-gunners demands years ago.
  3. oldgunfan

    oldgunfan Member

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    The best 45acp I own is a series 70,Colt. old nub sights arched main spring just the way i like it. I don't think they as naturaly with the flat main spring housing.
  4. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    I like the 80 and the Government just not the price tag
  5. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Colt still makes and sells fine M1911-type firearms......problem is, the Colt pistols are overpriced compared to Kimbers and SA's which are just as well made and offer a better value for the money.

    I own several Colt made 1911s, and my carry gun for the last 30+ years is a Series 70 LW Commander (which I've tricked up a bit).....but if I ever had to replace "Old Faithful", it would be with a Kimber ProCarry II....it's just more gun for the money than anything Colt makes today.
  6. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    I think that's more to the point, Colt's price tag, PLUS the reputation they have that you pay the price, and STILL have to send it off to a 'smith for a trigger job, throating and polishing, and any "bells and whistles" you want to add...


    In the 80s when I built mine, that was what you DID, ALL "quality" customs, Wilsons, Nastoffs, Clarks, Swensons, whatever, STARTED with a new or used Series 70 or Gold Cup and went from there...I GUESS if you had $2000 budgeted for a custom 6" IPSC comp gun, it didn't MATTER to you to buy a used one for $350 or a new one for $450 (at the time) if it was getting "chopped" anyway....it was almost ASSUMED your comp or carry custom was a "Colt...."

    But I think Springfield Armory is what started the trend towards other copies, while AMT aznd others were around with copies, Springfield was the FIRST one that started showing up at matches as full-blown race guns besides COlts, and doing well,,,,I think WIlson was the first one that used it for the basis of their customs at the shooters choice...


    And then other "copies" started showing up at about the same price as a standard Colt, sometimes CHEAPER, with all the "tweaking" DONE, and Colt never really responded...yeah, they have "custom" guns you can buy that have all the stuff done, but usually at a "premium," not "standard..."

    But a buddy of mine just bought a new Colt 1911 Series 90, paid like $700 for it at Cabela's, and it was "typical Colt" out of the box, so-so gritty trigger pull, a malfunction at least once per mag with hardball, standard throating, decent accuracy, but nothing awe inspiring.

    He shoots nothing but factory hardball, and after about 300 rds so far it's no longer malfunctioning, and he thinks the trigger is smoother, but he could be getting used to it...apparently he just had to "shoot it in...."
  7. Interesting, Polish. The Gold Cup I own--which was built about 20 years ago, and was brand new when I acquired it--has proven to be an extremely accurate and reliable pistol, but only after I pulled nearly all the springs out of it and replaced them with Wolffs that were rated at a higher poundage. Initially, I was so disgusted with it that I hardly ever shot it. At first it had a tendency to FTF, FTE, or produce stove pipes with anything but mild, lead target loads, and sometimes even with those. I wanted to shoot standard 230 grain hardball in it since that it what I normally practice with. Changing out the springs did the trick. Now it shoots like a champ. I've put at least a thousand rounds through it with not a single malfunction of any sort, even with hollow point ammo. I love the adjustible trigger on this pistol now that I have it adjusted to suit me--quite on the light side, I might add. :D
  8. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    HUH???????? Where do we get those? :D :D :D :D :D :D
  9. LIKTOSHOOT

    LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member

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    Gotta agree with Polish again---While I did have an early Colt LW Commander and it had been reworked a little, great gun but we parted paths many years back. Great for carry. I just can`t warm up to bi-metal guns any more and I don`t give a damn what anyone says......they don`t wear the same.

    But Colt has overpriced themselves and very well may follow Winchester to the ditch if not careful.

    Springfield owns the books as of current and has a great custom service as well.
    I also believe Kimbers are overpriced in comparing to others out there and some of theirs are down right tacky looking.

    This market is wide open when you get up in dollar for what you get.......and Kimber is moving into the real bells and whistle market "without" the bell and whistle`s.

    For what a top line Kimber retails for I can call the Springfield Custom shop and get one tweaked/loaded/customized just for my needs for a lot less than a mass gun from Kimber`s upper end and it will shoot as good or better.

    I`m waiting for glock to make a 1911(they already tried to make a new 45acp/GAP---boy that saved a lot of room in the compact pistol arena---MAROONS!!!!)........nah never happen because it would require a safety and that ain`t gonna never happen...........lol



    LTS
  10. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Not the gun's fault, PS. The Gold Cup was designed to fire target loads and came from the Colt factory with a 14 lb. recoil spring. The normal Gov't Models were designed to shoot hardball and came with a 16 lb. spring.
  11. I finally figured that out, X, after I did a little more research into the Gold Cup. I bought it at a time when I happened to be rather plush (an all too rare occurance, but I had a Xmas bonus!) and I decided I wanted the best 1911 I could find whatever the price. It never occurred to me at the time that the pistol was not designed for standard loads, but rather was intended strictly for light target ammo. It worked out in the end though, since changing out the springs fully solved the problem and now I have a really accurate pistol for range work.

    Doesn't Colt still put those on the Gold Cups, IPT? Mine certainly has one. There is an adjustment screw housed in the trigger that controls the let-off weight.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2006
  12. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member

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    The screw in the trigger is for overtravel adjustment only. It has nothing to do with trigger pull weight.
  13. Interesting, Shooter. I always thought that screw affected pull weight. It could well be that by adjusting the overtravel, the trigger simply felt lighter to me. In any event, the tigger on this pistol is much lighter and smoother than any other handgun I own, and that makes it a good deal more accurate in my hands at least.
  14. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    I agree, PS. You should feel my new Gold Cup that I bought from Shooter45! Smooth as breaking glass! I think I own half his gun collection now! The 45's are real sweet and well worked over by him. ;) :D :D :D
  15. I can well believe it, IPT. I've shot 1911s--military and the basic Series 70 and 80 models one commonly sees--for many years, but never had one with a trigger as sweet at this Gold Cup. After I changed out the springs on the piece, I suddenly, and unexpectedly, found myself with the best shooting 1911 I've ever owned. I still kick myself for not realizing earlier that the only problem with the pistol was the kind of ammo I was trying to use in it, vis-a-vis the recoil and hammer spring weights. With the changed springs I can shoot hardball FMJ and hollow-point rounds with no problems at all, and with better accuracy than any 1911 I've ever shot.
  16. Enzo_Guy

    Enzo_Guy New Member

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    I can vouch for such a lack of quality. My uncle just recently bought a Colt 1911 Government, he took it to the range the next day and aimed for the head of the target and fired the whole mag without hitting the target at all. He had to aim about 3 inches over the target just to get a chest shot from 25 yards. So not only did he pay a pretty penny to get a real Colt, now he has to pay a good bit more for a competition barrel just to get the damn thing to shoot straight. He says his next 1911 will be a Para-Ordnance!
  17. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Colt, in the last few years, is building, or claims to be, the tightest, most accurate 1911's they have ever built.
    Those I have shot (Recent guns) seem to bear out the claim. Problem is, so is everybody else, building the tightest...., and others, like Ed Brown,can prove their merit, on paper!
    I carry a Colt, believe it or not, and have no quarrel with it.
    A Stainless 'Officer's Model', that only took a little bit of work to become reliable, and accurate.
    I also carry a couple of Detonics 'Combat Master' pistols, that were that way right out of the box.
    My first love is an accurate rifle, and I have wondered, for years, why those attempting to build such, did not actually fire them, for group, and POI, before shipping. I suppose it is a 'budget thing', but, I think many would pay the 'extra ten dollars', for a proven product, as opposed to a 'lottery ticket'. I know I would.
    Same applies to handguns. I received a Model 29 Smith, at a gun shop where I was working, then, back in the Bangor-Punta days of that company.
    There was a 'test target', in the box, with this revolver, which would not cock, or fire, either single or double action!
    What does this say of their quality control?
    The factor I attribute my attitude to, is now deceased; his name was Armand Swenson. I sat at his bench, in Gardena, Ca, many evenings, just absorbing some of his 'attitude'.
    "It's not done, 'til I say it's done", was a frequently heard comment; he shipped no gun, until HE was happy with it!
    I know of no shooter with a quarrel over his work, and I know several shooters.
    Colt had, for years, a Government contract, or two, to produce arms with essentially NO warranty liability, and seems to have adapted to that situation, most profitably; Never mind, that users of their product were 'at risk', over 'product quality', they got paid!
    Maybe that explains at least part of it.
  18. Yeah, I think that is very likely true, Stash, sad though it is. It was short-sighted thinking in the long run though. Colt lost the respect the name held for so many years and will have a very difficult time regaining it. Like you, I remember well when there were only two handgun makers of any note in this country, Colt and Smith. With a weapon made by either of those companies there was simply no question of quality or function. In Vietnam I carried a Colt 1911 that was built, I think, during WWII. It never failed me no matter what abuse it had to undergo. I would not have the same confidence in one built today.
  19. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member

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    My everyday carry gun is a custom Colt Combat Commander.

    Would I buy a new Colt 1911 ? No.

    Unless I wanted a full custom 1911, I'd buy Kimber or Springfield Armory.
  20. care-less

    care-less New Member

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    If it is not a Colt, it is just a copy! No one understands the 1911 like Colt.
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