Conflict or War?

Discussion in 'Vietnam Memories Forum' started by Guest, Mar 8, 2003.

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    jadanek
    Registered User
    Posts: 1
    (6/8/01 1:59:48 pm)
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    Was the Vietnam War a 'war' or a 'conflict'? Ive heard both and was wondering what your thoughts were. To my knowledge the Golf of Tonkin Incident in 1964 started the war. This incident (i know there is controversy over what actually happened) led to a vote in Congress in which Congress voted to go to war. I would like to hear your opinions or facts on this issue. Thanks.

    Indybear57
    Moderator
    Posts: 374
    (6/8/01 2:08:15 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Conflict or War?
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    Welcome aboard! Always good to see a new face. I'll leave the answering of your question to folks who were directly involved.

    Mike L

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 818
    (6/8/01 2:23:04 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Conflict or War?
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    Welcome aboard Jadanek!

    Our Vets and Staff member Vets should be here shortly
    to welcome you and answer your questions.

    Glad you have joined us!

    JD
    Admin
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    dap22
    Senior Chief Moderator II
    Posts: 688
    (6/8/01 2:40:50 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Welcome Jadanek............. your question is an easy but tough one to answer. As far as I'm concerned, Vietnam was a war. It comes down to semantics and the fact that Congress never declared war against Vietnam, therefore, technically speaking it was a conflict. Similarly, the Gulf War was not really a war since Congress did not declare war, nor was Korea a war. I think it would be safe to say that anyone who was in any of these places at the time would probably prefer that it be called WAR and commonly it is.

    LarryJK
    Senior Chief Moderator III
    Posts: 108
    (6/8/01 3:45:57 pm)
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    jadanek...welcome to the board! As Dap replied...one tough question! But really it boils down to verbage. My opinion... it was a war. I think a person would really have to dig deep into the bowels of Ammendments to our Constitution to really define war and conflict. On the surface...war is declared and a conflict isn't. A President can send troops into a conflict without approval of Congress, but not into a war. It takes Congressional approval to declare war.


    oneknight
    Moderator
    Posts: 1117
    (6/8/01 5:19:07 pm)
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    Jadanek,

    Welcome to your new home. I'm sure you will enjoy being
    here, something for all, Vets and nonvets.

    Why don't you share something about yourself with us?

    Enjoy!

    Donna





    mt pari
    Moderator
    Posts: 31
    (6/8/01 5:55:31 pm)
    | Del Re: Conflict or War?
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    Welcome Jadanek..good to have you on a great team..

    Did any of you see the special about the official KIA from the *Nam Conflict*? I think they said it happened in the 1950's, I want to say 1955, but I may be off..I am still suffering from brain fatique from the dang cancer surgery, even though it's been 3 weeks, sounds better than senile dementia.. Anyway, they tried to keep it hush, hush for years, but his sister and a friend? pursued it until he was finally recognized as the first KIA and received his medals..That was when it was still considered a *peace keeping* mission..I always wondered, how do you keep peace with guns and stuff?

    When we had the Hells Angels here last summer for their convention, all was fine until all these cops from UT., AZ, CA and ID. came to save the day(our police chief asked for them to back up). We would see one Hells Angel on a street corner, surrounded by 4 cops..Ironically the only problem was with the locals, after the Hells Angels left town and around 2 in the morning, then all the tear gas, pepper spray and stuff went flying, locals were protesting the military type action used. Best part is it is all on tape, didn't look too good for the officials..We even had helicopters brought in from Utah to patrol the area..weird

    LarryJK
    Senior Chief Moderator III
    Posts: 115
    (6/8/01 7:13:29 pm)
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    Jadanek...in re to the Gulf of Tonkin. I don't know much about it but I have seen some documentaries that suggest that the incident never happened...it was thought up to give the US an excuse to be in Vn and to escalate the war.

    homer4
    Moderator
    Posts: 843
    (6/8/01 8:02:41 pm)
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    Have to agree with my friends above and I believe personaly...the entire World that it was a War. To heck with anyone that fells it was a "Conflict"...and same-same for the "Action" that was the Korean War.

    Politicians!...^%$#)*&!@~<!!!

    Now that that's out of the way...

    Welcome to Town Jad! Hope to see ya posting and posting often bud...UH! we count the ladies as buddies too...and there are some really fine ladies here. The guys!...EHHH!,just your typical belchin,fartin and scratch-their-ass bunch...but they all do it so well.

    So Homer puts an arm around Jad and suggests they walk over to The Boom Boom Lounge and "get a couple of free beers from Ole JD as a way of a Welcome to Town"...adding..."probably a couple more from some buddies I want ya to meet"..."you're also goinna love the barmaid"

    Gives a friendly slap on his back..."by the way Jad buddie!,I losst my wallet and...
    ...and two hard boiled eggs.

    nighthawk
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (6/8/01 8:48:53 pm)
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    Welcome jadanek

    A war or a conflict???

    How does that line go?? "a rose by any other name"???


    Hey, did I see someone say something about a free beer???

    dap22
    Senior Chief Moderator II
    Posts: 694
    (6/9/01 3:59:23 pm)
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    Regarding the Gulf of Tonkin. Larry pointed out that he'd heard that the happening of that incident is in question. I've heard the same thing and the post that I suggested which points out Gen Wm Westmoreland's thoughts then and now brings light to the fact that JFK wanted the U.S. involved in some "minor" conflict to show our military might primarily to the Russians and Chinese. Doubt, were he alive today, would he pat himself on the back for having made such a costly and monumental mistake as Vietnam.

    ps.....if you haven't read Gen Westmoreland's words, I'd heartily suggest you do since there's some great wisdom and information contained. It may explain to you a little more of WHY Vietnam happened as it did from start to finish...it's very good reading!!! I'm not sure how history will show Westmoreland but I think that any way you cut it, the man got a raw deal and did the best he could based upon the constraints he was faced with.

    Edited by: dap22 at: 6/9/01 5:03:11 pm

    low2go
    *Senior Chief Moderator*
    Posts: 404
    (6/9/01 5:29:15 pm)
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    Let's see now--I guess I'm the first Navy to welcome you aboard--perhaps not--I didn't scope all the entries out real well, however the 'conflict or war' issue is surely one that will cause hate and discontent as you struggle with their meanings. I suppose I am still the oldest participant here on the BB at 67, but what I would recall for you was my first war--the Korean thing--I entered the service in 1951 and there was general disagreement as to if it was to be called The Korean War, or The United Nations Police Action. It went on and on--somewhat like the blind men describing the elephant by feeling it all over. It was a hellva Donny-Brook and a lot of good, young Americans 'bought-the-farm' because of it. I recall what that young despondent Seabee told me one time as I was reprimanding him for something or other a few miles off the DMZ in 68---
    "DON'T MAKE NO F------ DIFFERENCE NO HOW, SENIOR CHIEF"---first time I had ever heard that hopeless sounding expression--I heard it a lot more before I left that hopeless, useless ---------. Can't think of a good word to describe it---maybe the young man was right way back then---I wonder if he made it back to the world okay!! Wilborn sends

    LarryJK
    Senior Chief Moderator III
    Posts: 122
    (6/9/01 5:50:45 pm)
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    Dave...no doubt in my mind General Westmoreland took more heat on the Vietnam issue than any other General did in any war before or after Vietnam! With McNamara and Johnson making the decisions...Westmoreland never had a chance. Pathetic!!

    jadanek
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (6/11/01 1:46:14 pm)
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    Hello to all. Thanks for your posts to my question. Ive actually read some where that Congress did vote to escalate the war after the Golf of Tonkin incident but because it was so unclear what actually happened there is what caused the controversey on whether we should actually call it a 'conflict' or a 'war.' I agree with most of you on here that it was a war regardless of the technacalities either way. Once again thanks for the warm welcome. I believe somebody asked me to tell a little about myself since i am new here. I would just like to say that i am a 23 male that studied history in college. I didnt learn much about the Vietnam War in high school or college and i think it is an interesting and important subject in our countries history that should not be forgotten so i have began to study it on my own. I enjoy hearing all kinds of things about the war what happened during the war in Vietnam and in the US. I will be posting quite often hopefully from now on. Talk to you all soon and to those who served for our country, THANKS!

    hope6970
    Moderator
    Posts: 418
    (6/11/01 2:18:21 pm)
    | Del Re: Conflict or War?
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    Hello jadanek, I don't believe I have met you as yet, however a big welcome to you.

    You were asking if Vietnam was a war or conflict. I have to agree with everyone above, a WAR. If there is anyone who thinks it was a conflict, all I can say they should have been there. Hope to see more of you on here.

    TShooters
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 230
    (6/11/01 4:12:01 pm)
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    Welcome to the board, Jadanek! This is a very good place to learn about it
    from postings of the experiences of those who were there. Glad to meetcha!

    Sharon



    oneknight
    Moderator
    Posts: 1146
    (6/11/01 7:40:51 pm)
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    Jadanek,

    I did ask you to share something about yourself with us.
    Thank you!

    Not surprising you didn't learn much about the Vietnam War
    in school. They prefer it go away and not have to be taught.

    Here is where your greatest learning of the Vietnam War
    will come from. They have lived it!

    Hang in there!


    Donna

    Indybear57
    Moderator
    Posts: 379
    (6/11/01 10:13:55 pm)
    | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Conflict or War?
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    Jadanek,

    You've come to the right place if you want to learn about VN. The folks here will give it to you straight. Look forward to seeing you around the farm.

    Mike L

    BTW-check out the Vietnam Memories section by John Wilborn if you haven't already. Some good stuff!

    Edited by: Indybear57 at: 6/11/01 11:16:24 pm

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